TOPIC: VOTE

No worries, Widseth.  President-Elect Obama can't raise taxes in 2009 as promised (remember public financing and telecom immunity) as it would really hurt our struggling economy.  Every rational economist (or historian) knows this.  I do expect him to allow the Bush tax cuts to expire in about a year, however -- which has me worried about jobs in 2010.  I am betting that this recession will be extended by 12-18 months because of that.  I hope it does not sink us into a Depression.  If they start to talk about implementing protectionism policies -- we are doomed.  It's 1932 all over again.

<br />i turned in a guy on who was illegally drawing disability. he done some jail time and had to pay it back.<br />

<br /><br />My hat uh..er...hood is off to you. Mind you I have nothing against people down on their luck who need a hand, but there are just too many who live off the system and I fear the floodgates are about to open. Down with big government. Up with social libertarians and fiscal conservatives. Now that the election is over, I can say that. Ha.

The plan is to restore the tax rates to those during the Clinton administration.  I think the nation would be pretty happy to repeat the economic growth of that time period.<br />

Of course we all would, and with 20/20 hindsight, we could avoid the internet bubble. The unfortunate part of that is that Clinton had little to do with it. Bill Gates, Michael Dell, and the others who contributed to the economic burst that put a computer on every work space produced that situation. Also, that economic burst and the taxes that were paid on that burst, caused the budget to balance during that time. Sorry Mr. Clinton, but you were just in the right place at the right time, and OK, you didn't screw it up. If we could do that for energy now, it would happen that way again, and we could drop kick OPEC to the farthest corner of the universe where they belong. Check out nuclear fusion, we're almost there but all the damned funding has gone to the oil companies in the last 8 years. See? I'm not a republican. I'm an independent libertarian, but the fiscal conservatism of the republicans (which let us down horribly in the last 8 years), not their social stuffiness, usually gets my vote.

If they let you down horribly in the lst eight years, why give them 4 more?  As Clinton said, if you want to live like a republican, you better vote for a democrat.<br />

I, too, vote very independently and I must say that I admire much of the fiscal responsibility that was in play during the Clinton administration.  Much of it was due to the "peace dividend" and the booming economy that resulted in higher than expected tax revenues.  As a fiscal conservative I think the last 8 years have been a disaster in that regard.  I have no answer for my children when they will ask me some day why we stuck them with the bill for our indulgences.  <br /><br /> stats.org/faq_vs.htm <br /><br /><br /><br />

<br />If they let you down horribly in the lst eight years, why give them 4 more?  As Clinton said, if you want to live like a republican, you better vote for a democrat.<br />

<br /><br />I liken it to giving the keys to your car (again!) to your drunk uncle who backed over two old ladies, an entire shopping mall, and a marching band the last time you let him "take her out for a spin". No keys this time, bub.<br /> <br />

Ya, like we're going back to the Clinton administration. Remember, that sort of moderate liberal view of the DLC is _not_ what Obama has run upon. His support is the whacky left who generally consider the DLC to be sellouts. Look at the primary with Hillary. So arguing this is going to be like a Clinton administration is ridiculous bullshit.

The point of my post was that if you fleece all the "evil" capitalists who have fairly and honestly earned their money, the government will absolutely kill the economy.  Go ahead and throw Exxon in my face--they make a lower net percentage than your local grocery store, and where does all their money go?  Mostly to dividends of stockholders--your retirement accounts.  Don't you want at least one stock that is doing well?  No we're going to limit their profits because it is a big number.  In business that is the idea to return a good profit to the owners--people who own the stock which is probably a part of your 401K (ok maybe 201K by now with the stocks that haven't done well--wish I had bought Exxon stock a couple of years back).  Reagan's trickle down worked really well during the 80s and 90s.  If the Bush administration and republican congress had mandated smaller government and stuck to conservative fiscal policies I think the economic mess would have been minimumized, but government greed and public greed dictated the mess we are in.  It was absolutely evident in the campaign that neither Obama nor McCain had the faintest idea what to do on the economy.  There are some real shmucks who should go to prison for their actions--like the former heads of Fannie and Freddie who are now Obama financial advisors and the Bush treasury secretary who feathered his bed for a return to Wall Street with a 700 billion dollar bailout, and others, senators and congressmen/women of both parties who have been bought off by lobbyists of all stripes.  Face it we should vote them all out next time--and elect whoever isn't an incumbant.  Clean house and start over.  But I am afraid by then the trickle up poverty will have gotten all of us, and promise people a thousand bucks and they will vote for you.  Read Dostoevsky, Brothers Karamozov--the Grand Inquisitor chapter to see how to control the populace with miracle and bread.<br /><br />In the end, I don't really care who won, because I see a good future ahead for me.  Confidence has always been my strong suit no matter how bad the media tries to make it sound.<br /><br />Just an evil capitalist here with a yellow armband trying to make a buck and not have some ineffective government agency take it from me to give it to the guy pushing the shopping cart so he can go buy drugs or booze.  And if I decide to give it to a battered woman's shelter or the cancer society or heart foundation or my church welfare system--that should be my choice not some idiot in Washington.

but government greed and public greed dictated the mess we are in<br /><br />I couldn't agree more with this statement.<br /><br />My worry is that greed, will have more impact in the coming years (5-10) than our memory, meaning we'll be eyeball deep in it again before too long.

<br />If they let you down horribly in the lst eight years, why give them 4 more?  As Clinton said, if you want to live like a republican, you better vote for a democrat.<br /><br />

<br /><br />The reason is, I mean was, that John McCain was a perfect fit for my opinion of what the country needs now. He is an independent libertarian fiscal conservative and afraid of nothing and no one, but he wears Republican armor. Too bad that armor was covered with otyugh refuse this time around. He had to put it on anyway. The honest truth that the republicans failed to clarify successfully is that John McCain and George Bush could not differ more on every issue except defense. They have disliked each other since 2000, when the corrupt Republican establishment (Tom Delay, Trent Lott, Dennis Hastert etc.) got the republican base squarely behind Bush and got him the nomination. Oh well, that's for the history books now. I wish President Obama good luck and worriedly hope that he can help us more than hurt us. Obama under the thumb of Pelosi and Reed seems like a classic perfect storm recipe for disaster. OK, I'm ready to talk about TD again. <br /><br /><br />

<br />Ya, like we're going back to the Clinton administration. Remember, that sort of moderate liberal view of the DLC is _not_ what Obama has run upon. His support is the whacky left who generally consider the DLC to be sellouts. Look at the primary with Hillary. So arguing this is going to be like a Clinton administration is ridiculous bullshit.<br />

<br /><br />What a clear and cogent political analysis.  Thanks, henwy.<br /><br />I hope it's not just like the Clinton admin - it was too moderate and corporatist for me.<br />