TOPIC: Try discussing here....

balthasar wrote:

Wade Schwendemann (Dr. Uid) wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:
Keep in mind, the vaccinated rate is only part of the story. Everyone that has had COVID (even those that never realized they had it) have antibodies in their system that are more effective than a vaccine at preventing COVID.

While it is LIKELY that there are antibodies in people's systems that they are blissfully unaware of, I would caution against using words like "everyone" when it comes to the human immune system.

And that adds 10% at best to the total, since roughly 32 million Americans have tested positive. We don't know how many of that group got the vaccine as well, so you can't be sure how man more people are covered. Numbers went down last summer, so a downward trend is a combination of that and vaccinations. The true test is going to be this fall.

It certainly could add more than that to the total, because there are a lot of people that have had COVID but were never tested for it. You have a point thought that some percentage of those who have had COVID have been vaccinated.

I don't know it's accuracy, but this machine learning algorithm estimates about three times as many people have had COVID than have been tested positive for it.

www.news-medical.net/news/20210208/New-machine-learning-algorithm-estimates-number-of-COVID-19-cases-in-the-US.aspx

Mike Steele wrote: Keep in mind, the vaccinated rate is only part of the story. Everyone that has had COVID (even those that never realized they had it) have antibodies in their system that are more effective than a vaccine at preventing COVID.

Respectfully, the statement about antibodies acquired from COVID infection being “more effective than a vaccine at preventing COVID” does not appear to be correct. Per Johns Hopkins “Vaccination offers longer, stronger immunity.” This is why public health officials are encouraging people who have recovered from COVID to also get vaccinated. From the linked article:

If you’ve been infected, you have some protection. But that immunity has limits. The biggest limit is that it doesn’t last as long as we would like it to.

Studies have shown that people who have been infected can benefit significantly from vaccination. It gives them a strong, lasting immunity boost. After receiving the first dose of the Pfizer or Moderna vaccine, they have immunity levels comparable to those of uninfected people who have received their second dose.

Mike Steele wrote:

balthasar wrote:

Wade Schwendemann (Dr. Uid) wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:
Keep in mind, the vaccinated rate is only part of the story. Everyone that has had COVID (even those that never realized they had it) have antibodies in their system that are more effective than a vaccine at preventing COVID.

While it is LIKELY that there are antibodies in people's systems that they are blissfully unaware of, I would caution against using words like "everyone" when it comes to the human immune system.

And that adds 10% at best to the total, since roughly 32 million Americans have tested positive. We don't know how many of that group got the vaccine as well, so you can't be sure how man more people are covered. Numbers went down last summer, so a downward trend is a combination of that and vaccinations. The true test is going to be this fall.

It certainly could add more than that to the total, because there are a lot of people that have had COVID but were never tested for it. You have a point thought that some percentage of those who have had COVID have been vaccinated.

I don't know it's accuracy, but this machine learning algorithm estimates about three times as many people have had COVID than have been tested positive for it.

www.news-medical.net/news/20210208/New-machine-learning-algorithm-estimates-number-of-COVID-19-cases-in-the-US.aspx

Even if this turns out to be the case, you still don't know how many of those people have chosen to get vaccinated. Those numbers are from February, and they are showing a possibility of 2.5x the number infected. We could also assume that the deaths from Covid are higher than reported as well. You can choose to deal with all of the hypotheticals, but I am going to stick with the numbers we know.

BeLinda Mathie wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: Keep in mind, the vaccinated rate is only part of the story. Everyone that has had COVID (even those that never realized they had it) have antibodies in their system that are more effective than a vaccine at preventing COVID.

Respectfully, the statement about antibodies acquired from COVID infection being “more effective than a vaccine at preventing COVID” does not appear to be correct. Per Johns Hopkins “Vaccination offers longer, stronger immunity.” This is why public health officials are encouraging people who have recovered from COVID to also get vaccinated. From the linked article:

If you’ve been infected, you have some protection. But that immunity has limits. The biggest limit is that it doesn’t last as long as we would like it to.

Studies have shown that people who have been infected can benefit significantly from vaccination. It gives them a strong, lasting immunity boost. After receiving the first dose of the Pfizer or Moderna vaccine, they have immunity levels comparable to those of uninfected people who have received their second dose.

Also respectfully, this article states that natural immunity could potentially last years.

www.goodrx.com/blog/how-long-does-covid-19-immunity-last/

as does this one

www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/lasting-immunity-found-after-recovery-covid-19

and this article states that people that have had COVID can have antibody protection for decades:

www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01442-9

This very recent article from Cleveland Clinic states in part "According to the findings, vaccination significantly lowers the risk of SARS-CoV-2 infection among people who haven’t already had COVID-19 — but not necessarily among people who have already had it.

Those individuals appeared to have similar immunity to those who were fully vaccinated.":

www.healthline.com/health-news/new-study-determines-people-whove-had-covid-19-dont-need-to-get-vaccinated

Mike Steele wrote:

BeLinda Mathie wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: Keep in mind, the vaccinated rate is only part of the story. Everyone that has had COVID (even those that never realized they had it) have antibodies in their system that are more effective than a vaccine at preventing COVID.

Respectfully, the statement about antibodies acquired from COVID infection being “more effective than a vaccine at preventing COVID” does not appear to be correct. Per Johns Hopkins “Vaccination offers longer, stronger immunity.” This is why public health officials are encouraging people who have recovered from COVID to also get vaccinated. From the linked article:

If you’ve been infected, you have some protection. But that immunity has limits. The biggest limit is that it doesn’t last as long as we would like it to.

Studies have shown that people who have been infected can benefit significantly from vaccination. It gives them a strong, lasting immunity boost. After receiving the first dose of the Pfizer or Moderna vaccine, they have immunity levels comparable to those of uninfected people who have received their second dose.

Also respectfully, this article states that natural immunity could potentially last years.

www.goodrx.com/blog/how-long-does-covid-19-immunity-last/

as does this one

www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/lasting-immunity-found-after-recovery-covid-19

and this article states that people that have had COVID can have antibody protection for decades:

www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01442-9

This very recent article from Cleveland Clinic states in part "According to the findings, vaccination significantly lowers the risk of SARS-CoV-2 infection among people who haven’t already had COVID-19 — but not necessarily among people who have already had it.

Those individuals appeared to have similar immunity to those who were fully vaccinated.":

www.healthline.com/health-news/new-study-determines-people-whove-had-covid-19-dont-need-to-get-vaccinated

From your first source:

Unfortunately, it is too soon to tell how long natural immunity to COVID-19 will last. While the research coming out is promising, this virus hasn’t been around long enough to know for certain. Keep in mind that we also don’t know just how far reaching or permanent some of the effects of the virus are yet.

One of your other sources is just a reiteration the Cleveland Clinic study.

The first footnote on another of your links gives you a better idea of what their research found:

Nonetheless, it has been reported that levels of anti-SARS-CoV-2 serum antibodies decrease rapidly in the first few months after infection, raising concerns that long-lived BMPCs may not be generated and humoral immunity against SARS-CoV-2 may be short-lived.

All of this back and forth is pointless until we see how the upcoming flu season turns out, if we can truly see long lasting antibody production from Covid exposure, or if the virus can mutate enough to circumvent both those existing antibodies or the current vaccines. The easiest ways to avoid the worst of the disease is to get tested for antibodies, get vaccinated, or just wear a mask when coming into contact with large groups of people.

*sigh*

www.npr.org/2021/06/18/1008196331/delta-variant-drives-new-cases-hospitalizations-in-southwest-missouri


Bottom line is the health professionals say to get vaccinated. Sure there are legit medical reasons not to. If your doctor says you shouldn't get vaccinated, by all means, follow that advice. The rest of us who do get vaccinated are willing to help protect you and those like you.

However, there is a not small percentage of people in the U.S. right now who are straight up believing in fairy tales and crazy conspiracy theories, and they are harming our effort to protect the lives of our fellow human beings. Call out this BS when you see it please, and do your best to convince people to get vaccinated.

jpotter wrote: *sigh*

www.npr.org/2021/06/18/1008196331/delta-variant-drives-new-cases-hospitalizations-in-southwest-missouri


Bottom line is the health professionals say to get vaccinated. Sure there are legit medical reasons not to. If your doctor says you shouldn't get vaccinated, by all means, follow that advice. The rest of us who do get vaccinated are willing to help protect you and those like you.

However, there is a not small percentage of people in the U.S. right now who are straight up believing in fairy tales and crazy conspiracy theories, and they are harming our effort to protect the lives of our fellow human beings. Call out this BS when you see it please, and do your best to convince people to get vaccinated.

+1

Just got my digital vaccine record - hoody hoo! At some point I will still probably make a copy of my card and laminate it, then put the original in our safe.

Went shopping yesterday at Ralphs (local grocery store) and Costco. I think I saw fewer than 10 people without masks, and that included me. People are being very careful.

bpsymington wrote: Went shopping yesterday at Ralphs (local grocery store) and Costco. I think I saw fewer than 10 people without masks, and that included me. People are being very careful.

Sadly, in Texas my experience has been the opposite. Maybe 25% are still wearing masks in public if the location doesn't require them.

NightGod wrote:

bpsymington wrote: Went shopping yesterday at Ralphs (local grocery store) and Costco. I think I saw fewer than 10 people without masks, and that included me. People are being very careful.

Sadly, in Texas my experience has been the opposite. Maybe 25% are still wearing masks in public if the location doesn't require them.

Arkansas is an embarrassment as well. I live in one in what I would consider a more progressive and non ridiculous part of the state and our average is hovering below that of the state (buy by less than 100 basis points). Less than 32% of my county is vaccinated (total pop) and when we've gone out there are hardly any masks to be seen. Location dependent, I either seen NONE, or a good handful, but I still assume most masks I see are on vaccinated folks anyway. I was ready to try to get back to normal, at least with my vaccinated friends, but a couple of them are acting like fools (running around with zero precautions like they're bulletproof when we've had breakthrough cases in the area), so we're still in the selectively social life with precautions when we go out. I've just had to create my own mental rating system from 0-5 risk levels and where I draw the line on who I'll see. This is just exhausting.

I just read that Missouri is having a significant rise in cases, especially the new Delta variant. Very low vax rates in MO.