TOPIC: Nothing to Prove - Geek Girls

WTF? Now we're oppressing people just because there are more men than women and some people felt inclined to make a god #%^& youtube video? You must be @$#%^ing me. Seriously, what is it with people like this? Nowadays the attendance at gencon is probably 2 to 1 skewed toward men whereas when I first went 10 or level years ago it was easily greater than 3 to 1 or even 4 to 1 and I'm sure there are vets who went to gencon when it was still in wisconsin and can tell us stories about there being nary a double-X chromosome anywhere. Instead of viewing this as progress, it's only now that the shrinking gender imbalance is oppression? @$#^& that. You grieve for our community? I can't be alone here in thinking that is some of the most condescending bullcrap I've ever heard, right? Seriously, am I in bizarro world?

The fact that GenCon has more male attendees than female attendees shouldn't matter. If the Con is 99% male and only 1% female that's ok. Now if the 1% of females are mistreated and made to feel unwelcome because they are female that isn't right, but if females are feeling threatened simply because there are so few of them at the Con that is NOT the fault of the 99% males. *I'm sure the ratio isn't that off. I'm exaggerating to make a point.

I agree with you in that I don't like the tone of some of the articles/posts on the subject seem almost eager to take but given what they have put up with I can see why they would take the tone they do. And while I'm sure there are strawmans to be made of both sides of the argument I would rather feel a little uncomfortable being lumped in with the jerks then I would have anyone at the convention to feel unsafe. Also just because there are more women at the con now then there were back in the day doesn't make it ok that any of them feel the environment is unsafe.

I know one ginger who's not healing Darkangel on any runs this year. How's that? Soulless and heartless!!

TPK Industries wrote: Henwy... I'm sad now. I've agreed with you several times. I'm never bringing you cupcakes again! =[

I've been forced to go on a no/low carb diet so you and your cupcakes are dead to me. Assuming that one day I'm able to escape these dietary restrictions, I will no doubt resume my campaign of sucking up for baked goods.

Adeya wrote: I'm exaggerating to make a point.

But a very good point it is. Some of what is being pushed by the OP is changing the very nature of gamers. Now I do believe that while there are gamer guys that are jerks the vast majority are not.

As far as wanting someone's 'game cred' that is just the way it is and that is not going to change. If some people are upset that it happens I suggest they find a new hobby be they male or female.

The gaming community is by far the most accepting community I have ever seen. If a person has a problem fitting into the gaming community it might be time they start looking at themselves as they might be the one with the problem.

My advice, grow a thicker skin and play what you like. You are 100% guaranteed to find an accepting group of gamers that will be thrilled that you are joining them. Whether you are male or female won't matter one tiny little bit by that point.

henwy wrote: I'm pretty sure you were supposed to add 'no homo' after saying you respected me.

I'm glad he didn't.

Adeya wrote: In today's society "tolerance" is an idea that is crammed down everyone's throats. Now I'm not saying that "tolerance" itself is a bad thing, but by now we get it and we are ready to move on.

I think that depends on whom you mean by "we".

• The people on the TD forums? Yup, I agree with you. I think this community gets it.
• The Gen Con general population? Eehh, maybe not so much.
• The general population? No frelling way.

That's not to say progress isn't being made—it is—but there is a looooong way to go still.

darkangel866 wrote: Bottom line to me is this:
If you're a gamer, it shouldn't matter what your sex, skin color, eye color, sexual orientation or social status is. You are welcome at my game.

Hear hear!!

---

This may be tangential, but I think many readers of this thread will enjoy this story about a prank with an unexpected outcome:
Brosie The Riveter

Try to look at it this way, its not an issue of people asking what your creds are or even good the natured ribbing/competition that result that's the problem. It's the whole fake geek thing that jerks can use cred checks as an avenue to initiate attacks against people said jerks want to exploit or control (in this case usually girls because they are in the minority).

This is the same kind of thing most of us (boys and girls) felt as children when the "popular" kids gave us a hard time because we didn't have the right sneakers or listen to the right music. Now those popular kids have grown up and transitioned to geek culture because its socially acceptable and their trying to pull the same stuff. And just like before their hoping the rest of us wont notice or will just look the other way because we either don't want to get involved or become targets ourselves.

I agree with you Picc but I believe that attacks like you describe are much more rare than the OP thinks that they are. I believe that many times the ribbing and competition are mistaken for the type of attacks that you are talking about.

cdsmith wrote: I agree with you Picc but I believe that attacks like you describe are much more rare than the OP thinks that they are. I believe that many times the ribbing and competition are mistaken for the type of attacks that you are talking about.

I believe that the attacks Picc describes are much more common than any male gamer realizes they are. That's because when people approach you they are often just ribbing, or engaging in friendly competition. So your mileage WILL vary.

I wish there was some way to let people experience the bias vs women without actually turning them into women.

Oh wait: there is! You could log into an online gaming site under a Female username!

Admittedly, MMORPGS are a bit different than LARPs or tabletop RPGs, because the anonymity lets people be bigger jerks than they might otherwise be if someone could call them on their behaviour in person. Still, I recommend you try it some day.

OR if you're not into WoW or FPS, try a female username in a geek-based online chat site. Or a Reddit account. Or use a gender neutral name and give yourself a female avatar on any geek forum. Serious: it makes a difference.

I have tried it Raven. I have played several MMOs over the years and have played both female and male characters. As a matter of fact I prefer playing female characters as I really don't like watching a male characters butt for that long while I am playing a game I have been in many guilds, more than half of them with female guild leaders and have rarely seen the issues you have described.

Most of the people in the guilds I have been in have preferred female guild leaders. I am in one now in GW2 where that is the case.

I don't know what to tell you but I just have not seen the issue in any degree that would tell me that there is some kind of universal bias. There might have been at one time but not that I can see anymore. I have seen people that try that crap shot down FAST by the rest of the guilds I have been in.

Yes there have been a few instances but not enough to even consider it being anything worth mentioning.

Playing a female character and being a female gamer are not equivalent experiences.