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TOPIC: 2025 Ultra Rare Tokens

2025 Ultra Rare Tokens 3 months 2 weeks ago #37

I rather liked that Shield Maiden could be used by fighters and paladins to keep their AC up with a shield while being allowed to use a 2H weapon. I think they would be more likely to use this wrist slot token because of the fighter relic/legendary bonus and guard power, respectively. Adding them would also mirror Giln's Redoubt Shield *and +5 Deathcleaver.

I really like this version of Charm of Echoed Taunts!
Last edit: by BasicBraining.
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2025 Ultra Rare Tokens 3 months 2 weeks ago #38

Jeff Martin wrote: Thanks all! I tweaked a few wordings and made two changes.

The Shield Maiden Bracers are now only usable by Barbarians. I am trying to do class-specific URs for all classes over the next few years, so this seemed like a great fit for Bar-bars.

The Charm of Echoed Taunts is now updated so that only 1 extra Taunt can be used per room.

Thanks for all the feedback!

I


Super cool changes!! Thanks.
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2025 Ultra Rare Tokens 3 months 2 weeks ago #39

Jeff Martin wrote: Thanks all! I tweaked a few wordings and made two changes.

The Shield Maiden Bracers are now only usable by Barbarians. I am trying to do class-specific URs for all classes over the next few years, so this seemed like a great fit for Bar-bars.

The Charm of Echoed Taunts is now updated so that only 1 extra Taunt can be used per room.

Thanks for all the feedback!

I


I may not like that my DF can’t use the Shield Maiden Bracers, I do agree, the changes make a unique UR for Barbarians. I think they will like this while they use the Deathercleaver.
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2025 Ultra Rare Tokens 3 months 2 weeks ago #40

Following on from the previous thread.

The only Legendary melee weapon Rogues can equip is Asher's +5 Viper Strike Fang. Since the Viper Strike UR tokens are very underpowered by modern standards, and Rogues need to equip two of them to get the set bonus unlike Monk and Ranger who only need to equip one of them along with two Viper Strike weapons, we are now at the point where Asher's is outperformed by normal UR weapons for Rogues.

Please can Nightshade's Grim Gloves be renamed to Nightshade's Viper Strike Gloves.

This would make the Viper Strike set bonus more obtainable for Rogues, without making it easier for Monk and Ranger who can already get the set bonus much more easily. It avoids any need to reprint other Viper Strike items which would likely not be desired by many players, since the Gloves are a useful token on their own. This feels like the perfect opportunity to properly rebalance the Rogue legendary weapon vs the UR ones.
I play Rogue. Occasionally I even play Rogue well.

Current Rogue Build
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2025 Ultra Rare Tokens 3 months 2 weeks ago #41

Tyraël The Just wrote:

Jeff Martin wrote: Thanks all! I tweaked a few wordings and made two changes.

The Shield Maiden Bracers are now only usable by Barbarians. I am trying to do class-specific URs for all classes over the next few years, so this seemed like a great fit for Bar-bars.

The Charm of Echoed Taunts is now updated so that only 1 extra Taunt can be used per room.

Thanks for all the feedback!

I


I may not like that my DF can’t use the Shield Maiden Bracers, I do agree, the changes make a unique UR for Barbarians. I think they will like this while they use the Deathercleaver.


While I am not sure it needed to be class restricted, I agree that this gives Barbarians a fun token to use with Deathercleaver. Hopefully this allows them to be just a little bit more protected while they smash things. :)
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2025 Ultra Rare Tokens 3 months 2 weeks ago #42

BasicBraining wrote: I rather liked that Shield Maiden could be used by fighters and paladins to keep their AC up with a shield while being allowed to use a 2H weapon. I think they would be more likely to use this wrist slot token because of the fighter relic/legendary bonus and guard power, respectively. Adding them would also mirror Giln's Redoubt Shield *and +5 Deathcleaver.

+1
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2025 Ultra Rare Tokens 3 months 2 weeks ago #43

Endgame wrote:

OrionW wrote: Last I checked the Crown of Might was noticeably less powerful than the DK Helm. All I am asking is that you try to be consistent in your arguments. It feels like we are going to go through this again in a few years when we see a pure +strength helm; which is fine, because the DK Helm is not the end all be all of UR helm design. :)

The argument is consistent.

1) Class restricted gear should be more powerful than gear available to all.
2) Heavy armor martial gear is a bonus feature for Clerics / Fighters / Paladins

Given 1 and 2, Dk helm should be better than than Crown of Might. Check, it currently is.

In a future design cycle, if we are discussing a pure strength helm, it should either:
1) be class restricted to Clerics / Fighter / Paladin
Or
2) Be lower strength than the class restricted version.

Edit
Note, this same logic was used for Death Knight Shield vs Orb of might last year.

Additionally, it is also being used for DK shield vs Thor's Mug.

Given rules 1 and 2, Dk shield should be better in raw combat stats than Thor's Mug, or the mug should be class restricted to Cleric / Fighters / Paladin. This is why I've been suggesting the mug be +2 damage and a potion effect.


I think the disconnect here is that while while heavy armor is a feature for Clerics / Fighters / Paladins, I don't think AC should cost nothing (or nearly nothing) as far as a reasonable item budget is concerned just because an item is class restricted. Anyway enough virtual ink has been spilled on this - I am moving on, at least for this thread.
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2025 Ultra Rare Tokens 3 months 2 weeks ago #44

Endgame wrote:

BasicBraining wrote: I rather liked that Shield Maiden could be used by fighters and paladins to keep their AC up with a shield while being allowed to use a 2H weapon. I think they would be more likely to use this wrist slot token because of the fighter relic/legendary bonus and guard power, respectively. Adding them would also mirror Giln's Redoubt Shield *and +5 Deathcleaver.

+1


I think of the barbarian as 2 hand focused to the detriment of AC with large hit point pools to offset.

As a barbarian-only UR, doesn’t this go against that goal? (Given shields are supposed to be AC. DK notwithstanding.)

And…

Putting in to wrist slot in the same year as bead wrist expander also makes this limited appeal. Speaking as a non-legendary fighter, I think I would prefer bead #4 & #5 over most shield options. I presume same for barbarian. (Endgame - here’s where your UR & max player bead analysis comes in…) probably the same argument with charms.

It sorta invalidates the name and is wordy to get on the token, but what if it allows a non-weapon offhand item. That includes the shields but also the various mugs. Not sure if that change makes it more desirable than the bead expansion.
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2025 Ultra Rare Tokens 3 months 2 weeks ago #45

Lequinian wrote: I think of the barbarian as 2 hand focused to the detriment of AC with large hit point pools to offset.

As a barbarian-only UR, doesn’t this go against that goal? (Given shields are supposed to be AC. DK notwithstanding.)

And…

Putting in to wrist slot in the same year as bead wrist expander also makes this limited appeal. Speaking as a non-legendary fighter, I think I would prefer bead #4 & #5 over most shield options. I presume same for barbarian. (Endgame - here’s where your UR & max player bead analysis comes in…) probably the same argument with charms.

It sorta invalidates the name and is wordy to get on the token, but what if it allows a non-weapon offhand item. That includes the shields but also the various mugs. Not sure if that change makes it more desirable than the bead expansion.


Almost certainly the "optimal" wrist UR items for a 2H Barbarian / Fighters / Paladin would be:

Bracers of Reckless Fury
Bead Bracelet
Charm Bracelet
Arcane Bracelet
Shield Maiden Bracers

I'm not sure adding mugs really changes anything in regard to power, though on principal I'd prefer it to just stay shield.
Last edit: by Endgame.
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2025 Ultra Rare Tokens 3 months 2 weeks ago #46

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Iross wrote: Following on from the previous thread.

The only Legendary melee weapon Rogues can equip is Asher's +5 Viper Strike Fang. Since the Viper Strike UR tokens are very underpowered by modern standards, and Rogues need to equip two of them to get the set bonus unlike Monk and Ranger who only need to equip one of them along with two Viper Strike weapons, we are now at the point where Asher's is outperformed by normal UR weapons for Rogues.

Please can Nightshade's Grim Gloves be renamed to Nightshade's Viper Strike Gloves.

This would make the Viper Strike set bonus more obtainable for Rogues, without making it easier for Monk and Ranger who can already get the set bonus much more easily. It avoids any need to reprint other Viper Strike items which would likely not be desired by many players, since the Gloves are a useful token on their own. This feels like the perfect opportunity to properly rebalance the Rogue legendary weapon vs the UR ones.


I'll add my +1 to this.

It's not essential for the gloves to be part of the Viper Strike set, but (kinda like the Cabal set getting a new item) it keeps the set relevant.

It doesn't actually add any power to the token, just makes them viable with an older non-OP set bonus.

For reasons listed above, it would remain balanced in the hands (ha!) of various classes.

Plus, I'd love the name "Nightshade's Viper Strike Gloves" : )

Also: if your reluctance to make them part of the viper strike set is due to a potential influx of folks asking for a ViperStike 4 or 5 or 6 piece set bonus, I promise my services as an assassin to stick a blade into anyone who hassles you about it. Heck, I'll throw in a free assassination just because these gloves are so shiny.

Thanks, Jeff!
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2025 Ultra Rare Tokens 3 months 2 weeks ago #47

The Barbarian Bracers feels like a wasted UR slot to me.

Is there anyone here who will PyP these?

In general single class tokens have a hard time being desirable - see for instance +2 Staff of Power, once a chase $200+ Wizard token which is still quite good for Alertness in every room being a $20 token on the secondary market.

This is limited to one class, and also has a mediocre effect for that class. After this year one will be able to pick up +2 charm or +2 ioun bracers for cheaper than this, and can probably get more utility out of that slot by filling the new slots with rare tokens that cost a few bucks.

New players who happen to crack this on a run are unlikely to have a shield to use with it also.

Barbarians durability doesn't come from AC.

Anyway - I think this might be an extremely undesirable token.

I'd consider:

a. Make this slotless and remove the +1 to saves
b. Just reprint something people want. With the apparent upcoming focus on DEX Gloves of the Cutpurse might be nice
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2025 Ultra Rare Tokens 3 months 2 weeks ago #48

Rogues can equip Thor's. Most classes tend to have a large dropoff from legendary to not. The to hit bonus is huge for classes that need to hit, for instance. But, the point that was being made was that crossbow is better than legendary weapon for rogues.

Gloves of the Cutpurse should be reprinted the year do DEX gloves legendary transmute path, not just randomly as it's hardly a high price UR. Would make far more sense to reprint FoP Dragon.
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