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TOPIC: 2025 Ultra Rare Tokens

2025 Ultra Rare Tokens 3 months 3 weeks ago #73

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Beertram wrote: Sure, sure... but more importantly... shouldn't the gloves be blue?


XD

Not gonna lie... I actually mailed Jeff about that. (Well, sort of)

Raven (in private email) wrote: I’ll even forgive the egregious lack of sapphires and/or blue/black colour scheme for the awesome effect ;)

"THERE WILL NEVER BE A TOKEN EQUAL TO A GOOD BRAIN!"- Smakdown

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2025 Ultra Rare Tokens 3 months 3 weeks ago #74

Presumably some crowns of.might will come available after these are printed.
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2025 Ultra Rare Tokens 3 months 3 weeks ago #75

As a monk player, I don't care about not being able to equip the Death Knight Helm. Cranston's works way better for my build anyway. If I do want to run melee, I have a crown of might.

Jeff Martin wrote: All damage is Sacred.

Acherin wrote: I also added VTD support for the most annoying token of 2024 the +2 Sun Scimitar.

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2025 Ultra Rare Tokens 3 months 3 weeks ago #76

OrionW wrote: Death Knight Helm

I am a little worried about Monks and melee weapon Rangers being left off this helm. Is the plan to have another melee helm of similar power in the next few years? The more I think about this I am not sure the Death Knight set is the right place to have a class restricted relic level helm at the UR level, even if Cranston's is at this power level. This leaves just a handful of damage dealing classes without a competitive helm.

tokendb.com/?fwp_usable_by=monk&fwp_slot=head&fwp_rare_box=ultra-rare
tokendb.com/?fwp_usable_by=ranger&fwp_slot=head&fwp_rare_box=ultra-rare

I wouldn’t call it “a class restricted relic level helm”, I’d call it “a class restricted UR crown of might”.

Think of it like the old UR Dread Sword vs the +1 Mithral long sword.
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2025 Ultra Rare Tokens 3 months 3 weeks ago #77

Endgame wrote:

OrionW wrote: Death Knight Helm

I am a little worried about Monks and melee weapon Rangers being left off this helm. Is the plan to have another melee helm of similar power in the next few years? The more I think about this I am not sure the Death Knight set is the right place to have a class restricted relic level helm at the UR level, even if Cranston's is at this power level. This leaves just a handful of damage dealing classes without a competitive helm.

tokendb.com/?fwp_usable_by=monk&fwp_slot=head&fwp_rare_box=ultra-rare
tokendb.com/?fwp_usable_by=ranger&fwp_slot=head&fwp_rare_box=ultra-rare

I wouldn’t call it “a class restricted relic level helm”, I’d call it “a class restricted UR crown of might”.

Think of it like the old UR Dread Sword vs the +1 Mithral long sword.


This is a Savage Sword level jump with 1 more strength than the equivalent bonus on Crown of Mightt and +2 AC which the crown does not have. It solidifies the power jump of Cranston's as the new normal.

This is the Crown of Might:
tokendb.com/token/crown-of-might/
It has +1 to hit & damage in melee and a set bonus.

Here is what a relic helm has looked like in the past:
tokendb.com/token/blessed-redoubt-helm/
It has +4 AC and a set bonus.

The Death Knight Helm currently has +3 Strength, +2 AC, and a set bonus.

I probably should have referred to it as a class restricted legendary , as Pern’s Redoubt Helm is a better comp.

With all of that said Cranston's is really really good too.
Last edit: by OrionW. Reason: reduced strength comparison between might and DK helm to 1 and added the bit about Pern's
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2025 Ultra Rare Tokens 3 months 3 weeks ago #78

OrionW wrote:

Endgame wrote:

OrionW wrote: Death Knight Helm

I am a little worried about Monks and melee weapon Rangers being left off this helm. Is the plan to have another melee helm of similar power in the next few years? The more I think about this I am not sure the Death Knight set is the right place to have a class restricted relic level helm at the UR level, even if Cranston's is at this power level. This leaves just a handful of damage dealing classes without a competitive helm.

tokendb.com/?fwp_usable_by=monk&fwp_slot=head&fwp_rare_box=ultra-rare
tokendb.com/?fwp_usable_by=ranger&fwp_slot=head&fwp_rare_box=ultra-rare

I wouldn’t call it “a class restricted relic level helm”, I’d call it “a class restricted UR crown of might”.

Think of it like the old UR Dread Sword vs the +1 Mithral long sword.


This is a Savage Sword level jump with 1.5 more strength than the equivalent bonus on might and +2 ac as well for free. It solidifies the power jump of Cranston's as the new normal.

Here is what a relic helm use to look like:
tokendb.com/token/blessed-redoubt-helm/

It has +4 AC and a set bonus.

The Death Knight Helm currently has +3 Strength, +2 AC, and a set bonus.

Crown of Might is pseudo +2 strength - it doesn’t get a bonus to thrown weapons, and the set bonus adds more damage.

3Str is a very small increment (in fact the smallest possible increment) over +2. The DK set bonus is also a less desirable one - retribution.

I know about redoubt - and it gives piles of the least desirable attribute.

Which of the classes on the helm are you worried about? Don’t worry - even though Druid isn’t on the helm, Druid still deals more damage than Paladin, fighters, and Cleric.
Last edit: by Endgame.
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2025 Ultra Rare Tokens 3 months 3 weeks ago #79

Endgame wrote:

OrionW wrote:

Endgame wrote:

OrionW wrote: Death Knight Helm

I am a little worried about Monks and melee weapon Rangers being left off this helm. Is the plan to have another melee helm of similar power in the next few years? The more I think about this I am not sure the Death Knight set is the right place to have a class restricted relic level helm at the UR level, even if Cranston's is at this power level. This leaves just a handful of damage dealing classes without a competitive helm.

tokendb.com/?fwp_usable_by=monk&fwp_slot=head&fwp_rare_box=ultra-rare
tokendb.com/?fwp_usable_by=ranger&fwp_slot=head&fwp_rare_box=ultra-rare

I wouldn’t call it “a class restricted relic level helm”, I’d call it “a class restricted UR crown of might”.

Think of it like the old UR Dread Sword vs the +1 Mithral long sword.


This is a Savage Sword level jump with 1.5 more strength than the equivalent bonus on might and +2 ac as well for free. It solidifies the power jump of Cranston's as the new normal.

Here is what a relic helm use to look like:
tokendb.com/token/blessed-redoubt-helm/

It has +4 AC and a set bonus.

The Death Knight Helm currently has +3 Strength, +2 AC, and a set bonus.

Crown of Might is pseudo +2 strength - it doesn’t get a bonus to thrown weapons, and the set bonus adds more damage.

3Str is a very small increment (in fact the smallest possible increment) over +2.

I know about redoubt - and it gives piles of the least desirable attribute.

Which of the classes on the helm are you worried about? Don’t worry - even though Druid isn’t on the helm, Druid still deals more damage than Paladin, fighters, and Cleric.


Druid is always (or at least almost always) going to want Cranston's. The two classes I am worried about that will need a new helm are melee Rangers and Monks. Maybe melee Rogues as well if the gloves go to print.

Edit: It feels like we are headed to another Thor's Mug of Melee situation here where the budget for the slot changes and new items get made (and to be fair I think Thor's Mug of Melee is a good item that should be printed). I kind of feel like we already hit this point with Cranston's, but wanted to raise the issue in case this isn't the intention.

Based on Thor's Mug of Melee vs the Death Knight Shield a +4 strength helm with no class restrictions, as a future PYP, would be appropriate.
Last edit: by OrionW.
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2025 Ultra Rare Tokens 3 months 3 weeks ago #80

Death Knight Helm: The more I think about it, Barbarians should be removed from this item. It should be reserved for the traditional Heavy Armour classes, Cleric, Fighters, Paladin.
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2025 Ultra Rare Tokens 3 months 3 weeks ago #81

OrionW wrote: Based on Thor's Mug of Melee vs the Death Knight Shield a +4 strength helm with no class restrictions, as a future PYP, would be appropriate.

No, That would not be appropriate for all classes. The point is that the heavy armor classes should have an edge beyond just AC from having access to heavy armor. Everyone currently has access to crown of might, the edge here is DK helm.

We could certainly talk about a heavy armor class limited Cranstons for a future set, but at the moment DK helm is fine and Thor’s mug needs a small drop in damage for something else.
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2025 Ultra Rare Tokens 3 months 3 weeks ago #82

AAckeret wrote: Death Knight Helm: The more I think about it, Barbarians should be removed from this item. It should be reserved for the traditional Heavy Armour classes, Cleric, Fighters, Paladin.


That was my thinking also, this does not seem like a Barbarian Helm. Maybe knock the AC off of it and just make it bonus ST and Damage - then it might be fit for a Barbarian. That would be more balanced also, as it seems overpowered.
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2025 Ultra Rare Tokens 3 months 3 weeks ago #83

OrionW wrote:
Picc's Grindstone
Is it still a rune stone or is it just a slotless +2 damage item?


It is the UR version of the Enchanter's Whetstone, but instead of +1 to hit and +1 to damage it gives +2 to damage and removes the Rare restriction.
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2025 Ultra Rare Tokens 3 months 3 weeks ago #84

Dergidan wrote: Oh my goodness PLEASE don't plan a nerf to the Assassin's Crossbow only to move that same ability on to a pair of Gloves for Melee.

If you have to change the synergy between the Crossbow and the Necklace, please give us all some idea of what that plan is.

A lot of Rogue players (myself included) have already invested in a lot of tokens building around this necklace and the crossbow:

At minimum:
(In Addition to the Legendary Rogue Necklace for the expanded crit range, which on its own may or may not lose in-game value due to a change)
UR Glasses (2 options) to be able to crit and sneak attack at range.
UR Weapon to get crit multiplier at range

And then add:
UR wrist or bead to ensure that critical hits affect all monsters
multiple UR or better tokens that increase ranged damage or hit
possibly a choice of hireling or follower that increases ranged damage or hit

If all of a sudden the ranged build doesn't synergize for 3x damage on crits, but a melee build does, a LOT of tokens I spent significant time and money collecting won't be as useful to me if I want to have a good Rogue build. I do NOT want the token pool to force me to switch from ranged to melee, effectively starting over.

I can only assume that the plan somehow involves taking away an ability from the necklace, so that BOTH the crossbow and gloves can 3x crit, but less often. That worries me just as much if not more, I also don't want the first legendary I ever made to suddenly not be a token I want to use any more. So what's the necklace going to do instead?

So PLEASE give some insight what the plans are for "adjusting" this synergy, before we balance new tokens around what might happen next year.

It seems there are a lot of sweeping changes brewing and it's making me reconsider whether to buy any more tokens until the dust has settled, or whether to collect tokens at all.

This isn't just all about Rogues, either. Seems a lot of the classes are in need of major rework, and I don't feel confident buying hundreds or thousands of dollars worth of tokens not knowing how they will work a year from now.

The game definitely needs some rebalancing, but stability is also important when the toys cost this much.


Thanks for your good feedback and fair points. We start class re-design next month....and then the Legendary stuff after that. Stay tuned.
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