TOPIC: 2025 Ultra Rare Tokens

Charm of Pointed Taunts - Not sure that +3 to hit during taunt round is (a) going to motivate Dwarf Fighters to equip this token or (b) going to be easy for DMs to track during combat, or for the developers of the character creators to implement.

Charm of the Hedgehog - I think it's ok at 5/8/10.

Greaves of Deflection - not sure why this is -3 from Missile when previous UR greaves have been -2 to the relevant type of damage.

IS Topaz Trilliant - glad this is getting a reprint.

Picc's Grindstone - Picc is entirely worthy of a named token, calling it a "Grindstone" is funny, having it occupy the Runestone slot but not be consumable is fairly powerful, but seems ok for an honorary token.

Shield of Guarding - liked this better when it allowed Guard to defend Ranged as well as Melee attacks. I could see Paladins equipping this in runs that had a lot of Ranged attacks. Not sure "guard one more person" is worth breaking up a Death Knight or Redoubt set, especially when Amulet of Guarding exists and doesn't conflict with a Class Legendary.

Picc's Grindstone: Since Runestone Fitting Base was errata'd to allow this, and I have 2 of those, I assume I can equip 3x Picc's Grindstone?

With the change to Runestone Fitting Base, will it get reprinted?

Grizwald wrote: With the change to Runestone Fitting Base, will it get reprinted?

Is it ideal that we can equip 3 grindstones for everyone to get +3 hit? It seemed fine when the base runestone could be the Grindstone and the other 2 Rares that are turned in.

Bead Bracelets: Like the new slot and 2 beads feels better than 3.

Charm of the Hedgehog: Like this for those who like retribution builds. Still feel like the damage range might be adjusted down a bit.

Death Knight Helm: Like this version.

Shield of Guarding: I liked the previous version much better. Paladins do have ways to guard more than one already if they want to.

Thor's Mug of Melee: Not sure I understand why Ranger is cut off from this one.

Ho-Yi Fung wrote: Holy Symbol of Selinwa:
Can you Turn Undead in a non-combat room, for the healing effect?
Can you Turn Undead when there's no appropriate creature to turn, for the healing effect?

General comment:
This set of URs feels heavily skewed towards Spellcasters. I don't think anyone would argue that +2 Rod of Focus, Earcuff of the Cabal, and Eye Patch of the Aesir aren't for them. Holy Symbol of Selinwa, kinda; it's a Cleric exclusive, rather than general Spellcaster, but it's still of no use to anyone else. Bead of Celecia, I'd also argue so. While Barbarians, Paladins, and Rangers can use it, they gain little out of it: Barbarian already has all the Rages they need from Bog's and a Cleric; Paladin would rather take a stat or save bead than get a single-use heal for 15; and Ranger would also rather take a stat or save bead than heal another 5 (+healing bonus).
Is it intentional that 25% of the URs grant no utility to martial classes?

I think the non-spellcaster items fall more into the must buy category though. Thor's, Pic's, and the Death Knight Helm are all going to be BiS. You also have the Grieves of Deflection (for the transmute) and the Bead of Greed that are going to be on a lot of folks shopping lists. If anything we should think about the wallets of our poor martial class playing friends... it is going to be a jammed pack year if all of these print.

Matthew Hayward wrote: Shield Maiden Bracers: Should have a class list, and that list:
-- Should exclude Rangers (rangers can't wield two handed melee weapons, and can't equip shields in melee).
-- Should probably exclude Monk, Rogue, and Wizards - who presently have no shields they can use

I assume this token doesn't allow you to equip a shield your class can not equip. It may be worth adding that to the FAQ.

Rangers can use Spiked Buckler in melee combat, although, it's not named as a "Shield" Would be nice to see these come back in style. The 2-H limitation is still valid.

BeLinda Mathie wrote: Charm of Pointed Taunts - Not sure that +3 to hit during taunt round is (a) going to motivate Dwarf Fighters to equip this token or (b) going to be easy for DMs to track during combat, or for the developers of the character creators to implement.

Agree. Maybe if it granted +3 Retribution on the Taunt instead.

Endgame wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: I think most players would rather have the DK set than the Relic level Redoubt set.

It depends if you want AC. For example. Running blind NM or epic double downs, A Dwarf Fighter or a Paladin may prioritize AC. Fighter may care less (AC is generally a poor stat as you know), and Cleric has other options as well.

Obviously.

My point is TD players clearly want STR more than AC on balance.

During the development of the class legendaries, Fighters strenuously argued that they didn't want, nor need, any more AC, and in fact probably had too much already.

TD has gotten by for 21 years without putting a single STR boosting token in the head slot. It can do so for another 21. If it must put STR in the head slot, it needen't ladle on other benefits.

Reap wrote: Picc's Grindstone: Since Runestone Fitting Base was errata'd to allow this, and I have 2 of those, I assume I can equip 3x Picc's Grindstone?

It's a Grindstone, not a Runestone... so no, but if "no" then why the UR specification in the errata? We have no UR Runestones otherwise.
We likely will get more different ones in the future...

What about Relic Runestones? The Runestone Fitting Base entry only specifies the same R/UR Runestones, but no mention of Relic ones.

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: I think most players would rather have the DK set than the Relic level Redoubt set.

It depends if you want AC. For example. Running blind NM or epic double downs, A Dwarf Fighter or a Paladin may prioritize AC. Fighter may care less (AC is generally a poor stat as you know), and Cleric has other options as well.

Obviously.

My point is TD players clearly want STR more than AC on balance.

During the development of the class legendaries, Fighters strenuously argued that they didn't want, nor need, any more AC, and in fact probably had too much already.

TD has gotten by for 21 years without putting a single STR boosting token in the head slot. It can do so for another 21. If it must put STR in the head slot, it needen't ladle on other benefits.

Spell casters got their wish on Cranstons with + damage and an extra eye slot. We can 100% have +3 str helm with 2 AC and the classes than can use them are still going to be low damage (excluding Barbarian, who is currently on the Helm, but could be dropped)

Endgame wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: I think most players would rather have the DK set than the Relic level Redoubt set.

It depends if you want AC. For example. Running blind NM or epic double downs, A Dwarf Fighter or a Paladin may prioritize AC. Fighter may care less (AC is generally a poor stat as you know), and Cleric has other options as well.

Obviously.

My point is TD players clearly want STR more than AC on balance.

During the development of the class legendaries, Fighters strenuously argued that they didn't want, nor need, any more AC, and in fact probably had too much already.

TD has gotten by for 21 years without putting a single STR boosting token in the head slot. It can do so for another 21. If it must put STR in the head slot, it needen't ladle on other benefits.

Spell casters got their wish on Cranstons with + damage and an extra eye slot. We can 100% have +3 str helm with 2 AC and the classes than can use them are still going to be low damage (excluding Barbarian, who is currently on the Helm, but could be dropped)

Don't drop Barb... If I'm not equipping just myself in combat, I'm currently leaning on Barb to wear the Death Knight Set and they need a good Headpiece either way, otherwise I'm using Cranston's Though, depending on how it's equipped one might argue that's the better choice... Perhaps the Death Knight Set could gain Dex at higher concentrations? Ha