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TOPIC: 2025 Transmuted Tokens

2025 Transmuted Tokens 4 months 1 week ago #37

Here’s an idea for the bead expander:

Move it to the ear slot and make it 2/3/4 additional beads.

Then because there are already Ioun and Charm expanders in the ear slot, and we are getting a ring expander there next year, players could have their choice of expanding any two of: bead, charm, Ioun, ring via the ears.

this could lead to fun choices, different builds, and the potential for change over time as to which are the ones you want to equip
Last edit: by Matthew Hayward.
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2025 Transmuted Tokens 4 months 1 week ago #38

Matthew Hayward wrote: Here’s an idea for the bead expander:

Move it to the ear slot and make it 2/3/4 additional beads.

Then because there are already Ioun and Charm expanders in the ear slot, and we are getting a ring expander there next year, players could have their choice of expanding any two of: bead, charm, Ioun, ring via the ears.

this could lead to fun choices, different builds, and the potential for change over time as to which are the ones you want to equip

The same general problems remain though. beads vastly outweigh charms and iouns in power*, and even 1 bead would drop orbits from many builds, let alone multiple beads.


*I’m assuming most players won’t build a mythic avarice and will fill their base bead slots with TEs, leaving the full set of beads to compare against iouns and charms.
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2025 Transmuted Tokens 4 months 1 week ago #39

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Matthew Hayward wrote: Here’s an idea for the bead expander:

Move it to the ear slot and make it 2/3/4 additional beads.

Then because there are already Ioun and Charm expanders in the ear slot, and we are getting a ring expander there next year, players could have their choice of expanding any two of: bead, charm, Ioun, ring via the ears.

this could lead to fun choices, different builds, and the potential for change over time as to which are the ones you want to equip


+1 to this, though Id argue make it 1/2/3
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2025 Transmuted Tokens 4 months 1 week ago #40

I feel most of these are moving in the wrong direction.

Trilliants at -10 are utterly game-breaking. I don't think we need transmuted versions at all, but if we do, they should stay at -5 and just gain damage types (thus applying more often, but not totally negating any one effect). Achieving -10 vs a single damage type in your build should require some effort, i.e. multiple tokens (I know, I know, exceptions already exist, but let's not make it worse).

Bead of Asgard and Bifrost Charm were already quite powerful at +3; we do not need them to be +4.

To end on a positive note, Odin's Eye Patch looks perfectly reasonable. B)
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2025 Transmuted Tokens 4 months 1 week ago #41

Bibeik’s Necklace: Personally I love it as is, but if it had to change I’d go 2-3-5.

Bead of Asgard: Love it !

Bifrost Charm: love it!

I really wanna say my opinion that the IS Ruby Trillant ( Relic and Legendary stages as well ) should be allowed with the Topaz Trillant.
I understand keeping it to where new damage types aren’t created and the DR from Trillants is made useless, but I think limiting to 2 IS Trillants is smart and within reason. It allows those who have Topaz Trillants to use them while trying to make / use the new ones. If we limit it to 2 we can ensure that as more are made that we can control the DR and keep away from Eldritch and other damages that could be created. I understand the argument about it messing with dungeons, but with how many wanted a reprint of the Topaz Trillant, how many of them are we worried being paired with the 2025 Trillants and ruining the dungeon.
The other big thing is we can still get the DR of a Topaz Trillant without using the Trillant but a different token. The only thing lost is the saves. Instead of making the older Trillant completely worthless outside collecting, we should allow them to be used at a max limit of 2 Trillants no matter the rarity. This would only add + 2 saves difference if we only allowed 1 trillant. We also always have the choice of not using them together or only using one.

IS Ruby Trillant: I think 2 Trillant max should be the rule allowing the use of the Topaz Trillant while ensuring as more Trillants come out, you can’t equip them all.
IS Sapphire Trillant: like it a lot. Had progression over the UR and the Legendary allows it to fully bloom.
IS Sunstone Trillant: Perfect! Don’t change it

Eldritch Runestone: so happy to see this again!!

Spirit Pet: Dire Squirrel - Request name change to “Flying Tree Rat”

+1 Archers Buckler: Nice to see a reprint of this:)
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2025 Transmuted Tokens 4 months 1 week ago #42

Tyraël The Just wrote:

Marc D wrote: Going to jump in here on Ring of the Dire Ram being very underpowered for a transmute. At 6 damage as a standard action 1/game it's actively worse than the Figurine of Power Squirrel/Horror. I get that those are special tokens, but compared to other 4* rings like +6 saves, this doesn't seem to carry the same utility.


I actually agree with all of y’all on this point, but when I look at those blue tokens each year, what pops in my mind are easier / lower transmuting for other players. That ring will never make it to my build, the crown is use if slot-less, otherwise no, the pet, I’ll make as I’m collecting them, the Eldritch I’ll deff go hard on since I have wanted reprints of these forever! The rest have no interest, the archers buckler is nice, but I have one already but it’s a nice functional reprint. I look at those as tokens useful to other players but at the level my few builds are, they won’t make it.


Two quick thoughts here:
1. I’m still running the +6 save rings on my NM Bard. I think there’s a power level here that fits across the board.
2. The recipes for 4* last year were on the more difficult side for newer players :(

I’m not saying these should all make it into high level builds. Just that a 4* transmute shouldn’t be less powerful than a Rare (even if that Rare is a treasure box special).
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2025 Transmuted Tokens 4 months 1 week ago #43

Bead and Charm at +4 are too strong. I've already commented on the OP necklaces. Trilliants are still OP.
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2025 Transmuted Tokens 4 months 1 week ago #44

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Matthew Hayward wrote: Here’s an idea for the bead expander:

Move it to the ear slot and make it 2/3/4 additional beads.

Then because there are already Ioun and Charm expanders in the ear slot, and we are getting a ring expander there next year, players could have their choice of expanding any two of: bead, charm, Ioun, ring via the ears.

this could lead to fun choices, different builds, and the potential for change over time as to which are the ones you want to equip


I really like this.

Yeah, I get that it doesn't solve the inherent "problem" of beads being too strong, but it does the following:

* Allows the Class Legendaries (well, most of them) to remain BIS
* Gives Flexibility as we've got 2 ears, so there's less pressure of having to choose one expander over the other
* Encourages more choices; the Bead expander may be a best-in-Slot for the ear, but then you have to decide if you want those extra Iouns, or Charms... or that extra Ring down the road.
* Opens up the possibility for UR/Relic/Legendary progression in future years, for the other ear-slot expanders

I feel like "problem" of Beads being too powerful is going to resolve itself down the road, as Charms and Iouns slowly creep up in power to be able to compete. : P
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2025 Transmuted Tokens 4 months 1 week ago #45

Raven wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: Here’s an idea for the bead expander:

Move it to the ear slot and make it 2/3/4 additional beads.

Then because there are already Ioun and Charm expanders in the ear slot, and we are getting a ring expander there next year, players could have their choice of expanding any two of: bead, charm, Ioun, ring via the ears.

this could lead to fun choices, different builds, and the potential for change over time as to which are the ones you want to equip


I really like this.

Yeah, I get that it doesn't solve the inherent "problem" of beads being too strong, but it does the following:

* Allows the Class Legendaries (well, most of them) to remain BIS
* Gives Flexibility as we've got 2 ears, so there's less pressure of having to choose one expander over the other
* Encourages more choices; the Bead expander may be a best-in-Slot for the ear, but then you have to decide if you want those extra Iouns, or Charms... or that extra Ring down the road.
* Opens up the possibility for UR/Relic/Legendary progression in future years, for the other ear-slot expanders

I feel like "problem" of Beads being too powerful is going to resolve itself down the road, as Charms and Iouns slowly creep up in power to be able to compete. : P


I really liked last year's idea of duplicating Luna's charm bracelet with beads and having a meaningful choice to make for that slot.

Generally I prefer us having more choices when designing different BiS builds (or nearly BiS) and not just always adding the new slot expander. This is why I like the current proposed legendary, and the contention it creates at the neck slot.

Also a new generic legendary on par with the current class legendaries (or close) would allow us to move on from any rebalancing that might/should happen.

www.truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=640&id=251621&start=24#376669
(post about balancing class legendaries at some point in the future)

Rather than touch a lot of already designed legendaries, one new legendary in the neck slot is a simpler and faster solution.

With all of that said, this doesn't need to be the year for big token changes, if an Earcuff is easier, it is a good idea.
Last edit: by OrionW. Reason: clarity
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2025 Transmuted Tokens 4 months 6 days ago #46

Wade Schwendemann (Dr. Uid) wrote: The bead necklace is likely too good, but that's been said and not changed multiple times.

Did the relic Trilliant need to get better?

I like the eye patches, though it would probably be ok for them to outpace the ring, since there is only one eyes slot, and the ring is quite old.
Maybe only wear one eyepatch as a restriction a la of havoc rings?

Does bifrost charm need to be strictly better than last year's volunteer tokens? Also it's oddly worded. Maybe +4 to damage, since melee and ranged should cover it all anyhow.

Love the 3 star and 4 star


The FAQ will get updated on Monday with more info. Thanks.
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2025 Transmuted Tokens 4 months 6 days ago #47

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2025 Transmuted Tokens 4 months 6 days ago #48

Endgame wrote: Bead necklaces:
Dramatically to powerful - please drop to 2 beads for relic and 3 beads for legendary. Or note the desire to creep neck past existing tokens in a FAQ so we can stop talking about it.

Eye Patches
Perfect where they are power wise, but do they stack with each other when equipped with Cranston's?

Trilliants
I'm really concerned with the amount of damage resistance when stacked with Supreme Ring, Bloodless, greaves, and other tokens. Will the dungeons move to using more eldrich damage due to these? Feels a lot like the old situation with lenses of divine sight where parties with the lenses breezed through damage and parties without it took substantial damage / TPK.

Bifrost Charm
+3 damage is sufficient here I think. Save +4 damage for a legendary charm.

Also note that +4 damage is relic ring power, and that makes you choose between ranged or melee, this does both.

Bead of Asguard
Feels appropriate compared to stalker beads, but +4 to an attribute is still quite a bit when combined with other beads. Can now get 9 str, 5 dex, and 2 con out of 3 beads.


Made some changes here. Thanks.
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