TOPIC: 2024 Transmuted Token Images < Part Two

edwin wrote:

Endgame wrote:

edwin wrote: Crit range of 19-20 is consistent with previous years token development where folks pointed out 18-20 crit range was too powerful and too easy to slide. The 19-20 crit range is what has been the new normal for a while now.

19-20 is available to fighters as a rare level neck and as an ability on the class legendary. For a general use sword across lots of classes, expanded Crit range makes some sense, for fighters it has very limited appeal.

Damage wheel when adding in dex bonus essentially becomes 30 to 40 plus the range and missile damage bonuses for the legendary. This is significant power creep and removes the limitation of the fighter legendary necklace being melee focused.

I would be for an expanded crit range of 18-20 if the dex bonus is removed from the token and the damage wheel is reduced by 3 for the high end values.

Ah, you’re talking about the bow, and I’m talking about the sword.

I find the new legendary bow redundant with Io’s myself. Unbounded damage from Dex could cause issues going forward. More info here:
truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&defaultmenu=141&catid=710&id=256055&start=24#442146

+3 Savage Sword - (optional) Savage attack (+3 damage -6 AC)
Kilgor's - double strike (additive with Viv's) + (optional) Savage attack (+5 damage -10 AC)

Matthew Hayward wrote: I'm posting feedback about the proposed 4 year Arcanum Greaves transmute which conveys -3 to all damage in the shin slot.

I don't like the proposed Arcanum greaves for several reasons:

1. It sort of kills the slot:
+ The proposed token is strictly better than any alternatives in that slot, so it's an auto equip
+ Once people have a 4 year, set bonus transmute in that slot they aren't going to want any other things to go there

2. It stomps on the capstone Level 5 Barbarian Damage Reduction ability - every class gets 3x the reduction in an uncontested slot.

3. The Eldritch set focused mainly on: STR/DEX/CON bonuses, elemental damage reduction, damage bonuses and spell healing bonuses, and psychic.

I would like to see the Arcanum set focus on something else. Adding DR as the next element after shirt of the Arcanum's STR/DEX/CON/Focus feels like it's retreading the same ground. Maybe the next Arcanum item should focus on some of INT/WIS/CHA, support abilities, and consumables, or wacky effects.

4. Thematically, Greaves is the least "Arcanum"-ey slot I can think of.

5. Minus 3 damage is better than necessary; -2 damage from all + set bonus is already much better than any alternatives.

6. Since the transmute requires a 2023 year UR, there could be bottlenecking on the number of these made because collectors only have 1 year to budget / get one of the pieces (although the 2023 greaves could be reprinted in 2027 while the transmute window is still open to alleviate this).

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Alternative Idea:

a. Start the Arcanum transmute for 2024 in a different slot.

Boots of Defiance look like the best basis to me: maybe the theme of the 2nd Arcanum item could be:
* "Powerful 1/game abilities that bypass normal rules but aren't just bursts of damage or healing".

b. If Greaves of the Stalwart need a boost to be desirable; make their ability -2 from melee or ranged, choose at start (players track their own HP anyway so there's nothing app coders or coaches need to do about the choice).

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Thank you for coming to my TED Talk.

+1 to all of this.

I’ll make one more appeal to tone down the proposed -3 to all damage greaves:

The one area where TD consistently makes token errata has to do with healing and damage prevention:

1. Lenses of divine sight were changed in function to distribute the healing damage bonus rather than duplicate it.

2. Eldritch 2 piece set bonus healing was reduced from 10 to 4.

3. MeC activation cost was changed from 10 to whatever it is now (25?) due to abundance of HP as a resource.

4. Probably most relevantly to the greaves, Cloak of Shadowskin was changed from 1 hit per combat to one hit per game.

I expect the transmuted greaves to provide more damage avoidance than the new Cloak of Shadowskin.

My last trip through the dungeon I took damage at least 10 times, and always in bunches of more than 3. That’s 30 HP from one slot.

Compare with 10 HP from Relic Ioun Stone Elfstone Shard, or 0-16 HP from Horn of the Valkerie that costs a standard action to operate and lasts for one room.

I’d urge TPTB to consider how much damage the original cloak of Shadowskin would have prevented in recent modules, and how much damage -3 greaves will prevent

I'll add to the chorus of those saying the Legendary Savage Sword needs something different than the 19-20 Crit expansion. Duplicating another Fighters Only Legendary ablity makes the sword seem a lot less special. Those that have to choose between making Viv's or the Sword will choose Viv's.

Argument why Crit Ability Stacking with Viv's makes sense...
Very few will do it so it's a cool aspirational element. But more importantly, expanding the Crit to 18-20 gives Legendary level Fighters another stategic ability. We already naturally hit on lower numbers by the nature of our gear. It's one of the reasons most Legendary level Fighters bat "clean-up" so we can bump higher damage dealers while still hitting. So while we're usually not going to swing for the Critical, we can use this ablity when other party members who do more damage are incapacitated.

To quell the naysaying, what if a negative was added to the Stacked Crit? The sword art on the token has so many jagged points and barbs on it, it looks like the wielder might risk taking damage when using it to it's fullest potential. To that end, perhaps when the Fighter Crits 18-20, he/she also takes 6 pts of damage? I think that's pretty "savage" and is something the player can manage in the dungeon... in fact, they'll probably wear it like a badge of honor when they do.

DM - "Fighter Crits for 120 points of damage."
Fighter - "Bah, the 6 points of damage I did to myself in return was worth it!"

SnakeEyes (Eric) wrote: I'll add to the chorus of those saying the Legendary Savage Sword needs something different than the 19-20 Crit expansion. Duplicating another Fighters Only Legendary ablity makes the sword seem a lot less special. Those that have to choose between making Viv's or the Sword will choose Viv's.

Argument why Crit Ability Stacking with Viv's makes sense...
Very few will do it so it's a cool aspirational element. But more importantly, expanding the Crit to 18-20 gives Legendary level Fighters another stategic ability. We already naturally hit on lower numbers by the nature of our gear. It's one of the reasons most Legendary level Fighters bat "clean-up" so we can bump higher damage dealers while still hitting. So while we're usually not going to swing for the Critical, we can use this ablity when other party members who do more damage are incapacitated.

To quell the naysaying, what if a negative was added to the Stacked Crit? The sword art on the token has so many jagged points and barbs on it, it looks like the wielder might risk taking damage when using it to it's fullest potential. To that end, perhaps when the Fighter Crits 18-20, he/she also takes 6 pts of damage? I think that's pretty "savage" and is something the player can manage in the dungeon... in fact, they'll probably wear it like a badge of honor when they do.

DM - "Fighter Crits for 120 points of damage."
Fighter - "Bah, the 6 points of damage I did to myself in return was worth it!"

A MeC style mechanic could be interesting. You can do an extra 20 damage on a swing but you take 25.

OrionW wrote:

SnakeEyes (Eric) wrote: I'll add to the chorus of those saying the Legendary Savage Sword needs something different than the 19-20 Crit expansion. Duplicating another Fighters Only Legendary ablity makes the sword seem a lot less special. Those that have to choose between making Viv's or the Sword will choose Viv's.

Argument why Crit Ability Stacking with Viv's makes sense...
Very few will do it so it's a cool aspirational element. But more importantly, expanding the Crit to 18-20 gives Legendary level Fighters another stategic ability. We already naturally hit on lower numbers by the nature of our gear. It's one of the reasons most Legendary level Fighters bat "clean-up" so we can bump higher damage dealers while still hitting. So while we're usually not going to swing for the Critical, we can use this ablity when other party members who do more damage are incapacitated.

To quell the naysaying, what if a negative was added to the Stacked Crit? The sword art on the token has so many jagged points and barbs on it, it looks like the wielder might risk taking damage when using it to it's fullest potential. To that end, perhaps when the Fighter Crits 18-20, he/she also takes 6 pts of damage? I think that's pretty "savage" and is something the player can manage in the dungeon... in fact, they'll probably wear it like a badge of honor when they do.

DM - "Fighter Crits for 120 points of damage."
Fighter - "Bah, the 6 points of damage I did to myself in return was worth it!"

A MeC style mechanic could be interesting. You can do an extra 20 damage on a swing but you take 25.

Something like an HP cost to activate the sword's crit range expansion could be interesting-pay 5HP to expand your crit range by 1, lore being that the Savage power requires a blood rite to activate.

I could see that

Still a lackluster fighter legendary for me, I still would like a power that isn't crit based because the neck does that.

In all I really like the fighter sword. Maybe something like "Automatically Participates in quick strike" or "Crits automatically stun the monster" If we want a quirky power.

Rob F wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: I'm posting feedback about the proposed 4 year Arcanum Greaves transmute which conveys -3 to all damage in the shin slot.

I don't like the proposed Arcanum greaves for several reasons:

1. It sort of kills the slot:
+ The proposed token is strictly better than any alternatives in that slot, so it's an auto equip
+ Once people have a 4 year, set bonus transmute in that slot they aren't going to want any other things to go there

2. It stomps on the capstone Level 5 Barbarian Damage Reduction ability - every class gets 3x the reduction in an uncontested slot.

3. The Eldritch set focused mainly on: STR/DEX/CON bonuses, elemental damage reduction, damage bonuses and spell healing bonuses, and psychic.

I would like to see the Arcanum set focus on something else. Adding DR as the next element after shirt of the Arcanum's STR/DEX/CON/Focus feels like it's retreading the same ground. Maybe the next Arcanum item should focus on some of INT/WIS/CHA, support abilities, and consumables, or wacky effects.

4. Thematically, Greaves is the least "Arcanum"-ey slot I can think of.

5. Minus 3 damage is better than necessary; -2 damage from all + set bonus is already much better than any alternatives.

6. Since the transmute requires a 2023 year UR, there could be bottlenecking on the number of these made because collectors only have 1 year to budget / get one of the pieces (although the 2023 greaves could be reprinted in 2027 while the transmute window is still open to alleviate this).

---

Alternative Idea:

a. Start the Arcanum transmute for 2024 in a different slot.

Boots of Defiance look like the best basis to me: maybe the theme of the 2nd Arcanum item could be:
* "Powerful 1/game abilities that bypass normal rules but aren't just bursts of damage or healing".

b. If Greaves of the Stalwart need a boost to be desirable; make their ability -2 from melee or ranged, choose at start (players track their own HP anyway so there's nothing app coders or coaches need to do about the choice).

---

Thank you for coming to my TED Talk.

+1 to all of this.

I could get behind this. IMO competition for the eldritched boots would be healthy.

I like the Greaves multi-year as it is. The -3 damage seems appropriate for an Arcanum token.

NightGod wrote:

OrionW wrote:

SnakeEyes (Eric) wrote: I'll add to the chorus of those saying the Legendary Savage Sword needs something different than the 19-20 Crit expansion. Duplicating another Fighters Only Legendary ablity makes the sword seem a lot less special. Those that have to choose between making Viv's or the Sword will choose Viv's.

Argument why Crit Ability Stacking with Viv's makes sense...
Very few will do it so it's a cool aspirational element. But more importantly, expanding the Crit to 18-20 gives Legendary level Fighters another stategic ability. We already naturally hit on lower numbers by the nature of our gear. It's one of the reasons most Legendary level Fighters bat "clean-up" so we can bump higher damage dealers while still hitting. So while we're usually not going to swing for the Critical, we can use this ablity when other party members who do more damage are incapacitated.

To quell the naysaying, what if a negative was added to the Stacked Crit? The sword art on the token has so many jagged points and barbs on it, it looks like the wielder might risk taking damage when using it to it's fullest potential. To that end, perhaps when the Fighter Crits 18-20, he/she also takes 6 pts of damage? I think that's pretty "savage" and is something the player can manage in the dungeon... in fact, they'll probably wear it like a badge of honor when they do.

DM - "Fighter Crits for 120 points of damage."
Fighter - "Bah, the 6 points of damage I did to myself in return was worth it!"

A MeC style mechanic could be interesting. You can do an extra 20 damage on a swing but you take 25.

Something like an HP cost to activate the sword's crit range expansion could be interesting-pay 5HP to expand your crit range by 1, lore being that the Savage power requires a blood rite to activate.

I could see that

So, I'm not familiar with equipped fighter stats, but how good/bad would this ability be:
Swap you AC and melee damage bonus.

Mike Steele wrote: I like the Greaves multi-year as it is. The -3 damage seems appropriate for an Arcanum token.

+1