TOPIC: Safehold Program Targeted Feedback on Rules > Part THREE

Rob F wrote:

Kusig wrote:

Rob F wrote:

Kusig wrote:

Rob F wrote: I think the Hirling Oracle should be reduced to +1 Saves. At +2 to all Saves it gives you a total of +6 across all Saves. So IMO there's virtually no incentive for players to use the Brewmaster, Martial Artist or Scribe. Making the Oracle +1 to Saves (+3 across all Saves) will now make it a tougher choice and I think you'll see some justification for potentially equipping one of the others. But at +2 to all Saves none of the other +4 Tokens will ever get used.

I disagree. The +4 Will save will get used for sure. It'll also even out your lowest save when you need it. I actually don't know if I'd use the +2 saves currently as typically reflex is going to be higher than the others for ranged builds and fort is already high if you stack CON. I rather keep +2 otherwise +1 will never get used.

Reminder at higher levels you get two hirelings

Currently in game Tokens that grant +4 to a specific Save are Rare level Tokens, (Ring of Reflexes, Ring of Fortitude, etc.), +1 to all Saves (Ioun Stone Beryl Prism) also a Rare level power whereas +2 to all Saves is a UR level power (Tanzanite Cube). At 6 extra Saves I'm always equipping the Oracle if my goal is Saves. If TD wants to keep the Hirling powers inline with what they've done with past Tokens it should be +1.

+2 all saves is a rare ability on cloak of resistance. +2 ranged damage is a UR ability currently in IS.

Probably best not to start trying to compare ring slot and IS for ability power unless you want to open a whole can of worms. +2 is more than fine and I would be willing to make a bet it won't be the most commonly used.

True on the Cloak but Charm, Bead, Ioun Stone are all +2 Saves at the UR level.

Let's stick with Rings though as it's the only current slot that has Tokens which consist of either a + to all Saves or a +4 to individual ones.

The Rare Ring of Favor grants +1 to Saves and +1 to AC. The other Rare Rings (Reflexes, Fortitude, Iron Will) all Grant +4 to the individual Save.

I'd be ok with +1 Saves, +1 AC for the Oracle. This would also give someone that's chasing AC a small bump, currently none of the other Hirelings or Underlings have an AC bump.

Cloak of Iron Will is +4 Will Saves. +2 Cloak of Resistance is 2 to all saves.

Kusig wrote:

Rob F wrote:

Kusig wrote:

Rob F wrote:

Kusig wrote:

Rob F wrote: I think the Hirling Oracle should be reduced to +1 Saves. At +2 to all Saves it gives you a total of +6 across all Saves. So IMO there's virtually no incentive for players to use the Brewmaster, Martial Artist or Scribe. Making the Oracle +1 to Saves (+3 across all Saves) will now make it a tougher choice and I think you'll see some justification for potentially equipping one of the others. But at +2 to all Saves none of the other +4 Tokens will ever get used.

I disagree. The +4 Will save will get used for sure. It'll also even out your lowest save when you need it. I actually don't know if I'd use the +2 saves currently as typically reflex is going to be higher than the others for ranged builds and fort is already high if you stack CON. I rather keep +2 otherwise +1 will never get used.

Reminder at higher levels you get two hirelings

Currently in game Tokens that grant +4 to a specific Save are Rare level Tokens, (Ring of Reflexes, Ring of Fortitude, etc.), +1 to all Saves (Ioun Stone Beryl Prism) also a Rare level power whereas +2 to all Saves is a UR level power (Tanzanite Cube). At 6 extra Saves I'm always equipping the Oracle if my goal is Saves. If TD wants to keep the Hirling powers inline with what they've done with past Tokens it should be +1.

+2 all saves is a rare ability on cloak of resistance. +2 ranged damage is a UR ability currently in IS.

Probably best not to start trying to compare ring slot and IS for ability power unless you want to open a whole can of worms. +2 is more than fine and I would be willing to make a bet it won't be the most commonly used.

True on the Cloak but Charm, Bead, Ioun Stone are all +2 Saves at the UR level.

Let's stick with Rings though as it's the only current slot that has Tokens which consist of either a + to all Saves or a +4 to individual ones.

The Rare Ring of Favor grants +1 to Saves and +1 to AC. The other Rare Rings (Reflexes, Fortitude, Iron Will) all Grant +4 to the individual Save.

I'd be ok with +1 Saves, +1 AC for the Oracle. This would also give someone that's chasing AC a small bump, currently none of the other Hirelings or Underlings have an AC bump.

Cloak of Iron Will is +4 Will Saves. +2 Cloak of Resistance is 2 to all saves.

Cloak of Iron Will was only printed this year and there are no other +4 Cloaks for Reflexes and Fortitude.

Bead, Charm, Ioun Stone: +2 Saves are at UR level. +1 are at Rare. Back is the only slot where you have higher saves because that slot was long ago a Save focused slot.

There is also a Rare Cloak of Shadow which is +1 Saves, +1 AC.

I like adding an AC bonus to the Oracle.

Not sure if this has been mentioned or not but for the Follower Dragon Kin I recommend the extra slot being either a Bead or Stone not both. If there are going to be more Follower Tokens released at a later time the next round could include one that expands the Bead (or Stone).

Also recommend the Fiend being only one Charm instead of two.

I know there are current max limits on Stones and Charms but they could always be bumped up in the future.

Rob F wrote: Not sure if this has been mentioned or not but for the Follower Dragon Kin I recommend the extra slot being either a Bead or Stone not both. If there are going to be more Follower Tokens released at a later time the next round could include one that expands the Bead (or Stone).

Also recommend the Fiend being only one Charm instead of two.

I know there are current max limits on Stones and Charms but they could always be bumped up in the future.

I hear what you’re saying but I would leave it the way it is, in the past Jeff has never been against expanding slots or even talk about how much. As of lately though, he has been very adamant that the slot max is 10 and that expansion past that is not going to happen. While we don’t know what the future will bring, I would bet not slot will see + 10 in the next 10-20 years. It took 20 to get us here, and there are many that are one slot or two. The only that can get +4 is Charm and IS. Even rings can’t because they don’t stack. With the community and Jeff in agreement, y’all are very careful to make sure things don’t expand without good reason, and the expansion costs, which makes it more “ trade good “ absorbing.

From the QTR thread :

Druegar wrote: The version of Underling Wizard that was sent to the printer says, "+3 to Spell damage" not "+3 to Focus".

Can the Safehold doc be updated to reflect this? Or is there already a published version with this update, and the version last updated 09 March is just in my stale cache?

It's too bad we won't be able to use hirelings at GenCon.

Ho-Yi Fung wrote: Can the Safehold doc be updated to reflect this?

done
If you don't see "last updated March 23" in the footers, clear your cache and re-download the PDF.

Wait, I think I missed earlier discussions, is this Mythic Avarice replacing the previously discussed Charm of Uber Avarice? Or is it in addition to that but will also require Charm of Avaruce and Beads: I’m going to be very sad if it is in replacement of Uber Avarice because that is a huge transmute cost increase from what I was expecting

Traditionally, ghosts have only been allowed to equip Synergy tokens and Treasure Enhancers. Can I equip a single ghost with a Safehold I in order to also equip the ghost with Mythic Avarice? I would very much hope the answer is yes.

Anthony Barnstable wrote: Wait, I think I missed earlier discussions, is this Mythic Avarice replacing the previously discussed Charm of Uber Avarice? Or is it in addition to that but will also require Charm of Avaruce and Beads: I’m going to be very sad if it is in replacement of Uber Avarice because that is a huge transmute cost increase from what I was expecting

This is the “ über Avarice “ and will require the beads to craft at Mythic I.

Oh geez, that is a huge disappointment and I didn’t realize that this whole time. I agree about preferring it drop down to Tier 2 mythic.

Tyraël The Just wrote:

Anthony Barnstable wrote: Wait, I think I missed earlier discussions, is this Mythic Avarice replacing the previously discussed Charm of Uber Avarice? Or is it in addition to that but will also require Charm of Avaruce and Beads: I’m going to be very sad if it is in replacement of Uber Avarice because that is a huge transmute cost increase from what I was expecting

This is the “ über Avarice “ and will require the beads to craft at Mythic I.

This doesn’t make sense. Max treasure right now is 25. Add two more beads then it’s 29! How could +20 treasure be Uber CoA then. What did I miss ?