TOPIC: Safehold Program Targeted Feedback on Rules > Part THREE

Matt wrote:

Jeff Martin wrote:

Matt wrote: Is there any plan for having access to 6th lvl class cards besides Safehold I down the road? Very much a feel bad if it's going to be locked purely to Safehold.

Not sure, honestly. It would be hard to make folks give tons of tokens to get 6th level and then a few years later make it easier.

Maybe use 2 lvl enhancements vs 1 (safehold) to get there as an alternate way for folks to play the 6th lvl class cards? I suspect/afraid of that without the Safehold access/way to get to 6th lvl it'll be a why bother to even play at higher tiers.

Maybe make it the five item Arcanum Set Bonus also? Transmuting five Multi-Year Arcanum tokens isn't really easier than making a SafeHold I and a Mythic token, and it won't be available until well after the Mythic tokens are. That gives big token buyers a quicker route with one slot required, and slow and steady token buyers a longer route with five slots required. If you announce it before Safeholds are available for transmuting everyone will be making fully informed decisions.

Wayne Rhodes wrote: I’d really like to see the avarice dropped to a tier 2 mythic. First there was already people purchasing beads this year knowing the recipe was going to require them.
2nd were not expecting 5 tiers of progressively increasing paywall in front of it. I think this will probably create a lot of hard feelings.

3rd you need under this proposal 1x safehold 1 per an avarice.

Right now if the only mythic you are willing to budget for is the new avarice it’s going to cost

1 CoA $1500
3 TE beads $300
Tier 1 kicker $2000
Safehold 2 800
Safehold 1 1000
$5600 total,

I’m not counting the other 3 levels of safehold because I see the value in them. Safehold 2 and safehold 1 are about making mythics

Dropping the avarice to a mythic 2 will get the price down to $3,600 and that’s still a lot but it’s less likely to run off players than the other price tag.

If I understand something wrong please correct me so I understand.

The Mythic Avarice will be the most sought after Token in the game. Why would the most sought after Token not be in the highest tier?

And maybe I missed something but whats the problem with the Bead of Bounty, are they no longer going to be used in the recipe?

Rob F wrote:

Wayne Rhodes wrote: I’d really like to see the avarice dropped to a tier 2 mythic. First there was already people purchasing beads this year knowing the recipe was going to require them.
2nd were not expecting 5 tiers of progressively increasing paywall in front of it. I think this will probably create a lot of hard feelings.

3rd you need under this proposal 1x safehold 1 per an avarice.

Right now if the only mythic you are willing to budget for is the new avarice it’s going to cost

1 CoA $1500
3 TE beads $300
Tier 1 kicker $2000
Safehold 2 800
Safehold 1 1000
$5600 total,

I’m not counting the other 3 levels of safehold because I see the value in them. Safehold 2 and safehold 1 are about making mythics

Dropping the avarice to a mythic 2 will get the price down to $3,600 and that’s still a lot but it’s less likely to run off players than the other price tag.

If I understand something wrong please correct me so I understand.

The Mythic Avarice will be the most sought after Token in the game. Why would the most sought after Token not be in the highest tier?

And maybe I missed something but whats the problem with the Bead of Bounty, are they no longer going to be used in the recipe?

Charm of avarice is currently the most sought after token in the game but that doesn’t make it the most expensive.

Second I have not seen anything saying the beads are not part of the transmute just that all mythics would require a legendary. The last I saw the plan was for the recipe to include 3 beads and avarice. If something has been said somewhere else please let me know where, i estimated $300 for all 3 beads

The avarice will only add 1 extra pull and based on past experience it will not stack with the beads or CoA, if it does stack with beads and CoA then I would agree it needs to be that high.

Getting left behind on TEs will fluster a lot of people, imposing the extra $2000 paywall will of tier 1 mythic will create bitterness in a large parts of the players base.
Sadly a large part of the player base will not even be seeing this until much later to voice their concerns or complaints. There is only a small part of the community on here discussing this all.

I think at tier 2 it’s expensive but reasonable, at tier 1 it gets $2000 extra added to the price and I’m questioning the direction.

I’m ok with tier 1 tokens in general but probably will never make one, and this is coming from someone with 8 legendary tokens.
I think the treadmill might be speeding up too fast at this point for the health of the game.

Jeff Martin wrote:

BeLinda Mathie wrote: Forgive me if this has been asked and answered, but for the Follower Dragonkin and Follower Fiend, are the extra slots granted still subject to the 10 Charm and 9 Ioun Stone overall limits? In other words, does equipping Follower Fiend mean you get up to 12 Charms, or does it mean you can replace Arcane Earcuff or Charm Bracelets and still get up to 10 Charms?

Those limits are still in place.

Thank you for the response, and for taking our questions and feedback.

Wayne Rhodes wrote:

Rob F wrote:

Wayne Rhodes wrote: I’d really like to see the avarice dropped to a tier 2 mythic. First there was already people purchasing beads this year knowing the recipe was going to require them.
2nd were not expecting 5 tiers of progressively increasing paywall in front of it. I think this will probably create a lot of hard feelings.

3rd you need under this proposal 1x safehold 1 per an avarice.

Right now if the only mythic you are willing to budget for is the new avarice it’s going to cost

1 CoA $1500
3 TE beads $300
Tier 1 kicker $2000
Safehold 2 800
Safehold 1 1000
$5600 total,

I’m not counting the other 3 levels of safehold because I see the value in them. Safehold 2 and safehold 1 are about making mythics

Dropping the avarice to a mythic 2 will get the price down to $3,600 and that’s still a lot but it’s less likely to run off players than the other price tag.

If I understand something wrong please correct me so I understand.

The Mythic Avarice will be the most sought after Token in the game. Why would the most sought after Token not be in the highest tier?

And maybe I missed something but whats the problem with the Bead of Bounty, are they no longer going to be used in the recipe?

Charm of avarice is currently the most sought after token in the game but that doesn’t make it the most expensive.

Second I have not seen anything saying the beads are not part of the transmute just that all mythics would require a legendary. The last I saw the plan was for the recipe to include 3 beads and avarice. If something has been said somewhere else please let me know where, i estimated $300 for all 3 beads

The avarice will only add 1 extra pull and based on past experience it will not stack with the beads or CoA, if it does stack with beads and CoA then I would agree it needs to be that high.

Getting left behind on TEs will fluster a lot of people, imposing the extra $2000 paywall will of tier 1 mythic will create bitterness in a large parts of the players base.
Sadly a large part of the player base will not even be seeing this until much later to voice their concerns or complaints. There is only a small part of the community on here discussing this all.

I think at tier 2 it’s expensive but reasonable, at tier 1 it gets $2000 extra added to the price and I’m questioning the direction.

I’m ok with tier 1 tokens in general but probably will never make one, and this is coming from someone with 8 legendary tokens.
I think the treadmill might be speeding up too fast at this point for the health of the game.

I'd say the CoA is the most expensive Legendary right now. And the Mythic Avarice being in Tier 1 and only granting one extra pull....well...that kinda seems like a treasure cap to me. Maybe that's the plan....

Jeff Martin wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: I'll make one last pitch to remove the statements about these tokens "never being available in treasure."

TD never has to put these into the treasure mix.

But making this guarantee can only cause problems down the line.

You can see in the prior rules thread that it took all of 25 minutes for people to begin to grasp onto that rule and try to broaden it to match their own interpretation of the "spirit of the rule" by requesting further limitations be guaranteed (that Safehold related tokens will never be distributed in any way to Golden Ticket holders as part of that program).

Anyway - I feel there is a chance this wording will come back to bite TD down the line - similar to the fracas and hard feelings around the guarantee to not reprint the Horn of Plenty and the creation of the Charm of Avarice.

What's the benefit of making this guarantee?

Thanks for your considered feedback. I want to let people know all the Safehold tokens will remain very rare and they will not be diluted by Treasure nor GT bags. I understand your point...it is a good one, but I think it is important for us to make that pledge.

Could you consider something like a five-year pledge "...will not bein treasure pulls for a period of at least five years, after which we can, but not necessarily (or even likely) will.", just because we can't be sure about the way the game will look in 2031?

I mean, there's an amazing chance you still won't want to in 2031, but it seems like making "NEVER" commitments from the past gets used in ways that aren't always the best for the game, at least from what I've seen

Rob F wrote:

Wayne Rhodes wrote:

Rob F wrote:

Wayne Rhodes wrote: I’d really like to see the avarice dropped to a tier 2 mythic. First there was already people purchasing beads this year knowing the recipe was going to require them.
2nd were not expecting 5 tiers of progressively increasing paywall in front of it. I think this will probably create a lot of hard feelings.

3rd you need under this proposal 1x safehold 1 per an avarice.

Right now if the only mythic you are willing to budget for is the new avarice it’s going to cost

1 CoA $1500
3 TE beads $300
Tier 1 kicker $2000
Safehold 2 800
Safehold 1 1000
$5600 total,

I’m not counting the other 3 levels of safehold because I see the value in them. Safehold 2 and safehold 1 are about making mythics

Dropping the avarice to a mythic 2 will get the price down to $3,600 and that’s still a lot but it’s less likely to run off players than the other price tag.

If I understand something wrong please correct me so I understand.

The Mythic Avarice will be the most sought after Token in the game. Why would the most sought after Token not be in the highest tier?

And maybe I missed something but whats the problem with the Bead of Bounty, are they no longer going to be used in the recipe?

Charm of avarice is currently the most sought after token in the game but that doesn’t make it the most expensive.

Second I have not seen anything saying the beads are not part of the transmute just that all mythics would require a legendary. The last I saw the plan was for the recipe to include 3 beads and avarice. If something has been said somewhere else please let me know where, i estimated $300 for all 3 beads

The avarice will only add 1 extra pull and based on past experience it will not stack with the beads or CoA, if it does stack with beads and CoA then I would agree it needs to be that high.

Getting left behind on TEs will fluster a lot of people, imposing the extra $2000 paywall will of tier 1 mythic will create bitterness in a large parts of the players base.
Sadly a large part of the player base will not even be seeing this until much later to voice their concerns or complaints. There is only a small part of the community on here discussing this all.

I think at tier 2 it’s expensive but reasonable, at tier 1 it gets $2000 extra added to the price and I’m questioning the direction.

I’m ok with tier 1 tokens in general but probably will never make one, and this is coming from someone with 8 legendary tokens.
I think the treadmill might be speeding up too fast at this point for the health of the game.

I'd say the CoA is the most expensive Legendary right now. And the Mythic Avarice being in Tier 1 and only granting one extra pull....well...that kinda seems like a treasure cap to me. Maybe that's the plan....

I didn’t say most expensive legendary, I said it wasn’t the most expensive token.

Rod of 7 parts
Ring of elemental Comand
Maybe boots of the 4 winds
Maybe skull of cavendar as well

Why do you want it so high. What is the benefit of having an extra 2k of cost for 1 token to you. I have explained my reasoning for thinking it should be cheaper but not cheap.

Rob F wrote:

Wayne Rhodes wrote:

Rob F wrote:

Wayne Rhodes wrote: I’d really like to see the avarice dropped to a tier 2 mythic. First there was already people purchasing beads this year knowing the recipe was going to require them.
2nd were not expecting 5 tiers of progressively increasing paywall in front of it. I think this will probably create a lot of hard feelings.

3rd you need under this proposal 1x safehold 1 per an avarice.

Right now if the only mythic you are willing to budget for is the new avarice it’s going to cost

1 CoA $1500
3 TE beads $300
Tier 1 kicker $2000
Safehold 2 800
Safehold 1 1000
$5600 total,

I’m not counting the other 3 levels of safehold because I see the value in them. Safehold 2 and safehold 1 are about making mythics

Dropping the avarice to a mythic 2 will get the price down to $3,600 and that’s still a lot but it’s less likely to run off players than the other price tag.

If I understand something wrong please correct me so I understand.

The Mythic Avarice will be the most sought after Token in the game. Why would the most sought after Token not be in the highest tier?

And maybe I missed something but whats the problem with the Bead of Bounty, are they no longer going to be used in the recipe?

Charm of avarice is currently the most sought after token in the game but that doesn’t make it the most expensive.

Second I have not seen anything saying the beads are not part of the transmute just that all mythics would require a legendary. The last I saw the plan was for the recipe to include 3 beads and avarice. If something has been said somewhere else please let me know where, i estimated $300 for all 3 beads

The avarice will only add 1 extra pull and based on past experience it will not stack with the beads or CoA, if it does stack with beads and CoA then I would agree it needs to be that high.

Getting left behind on TEs will fluster a lot of people, imposing the extra $2000 paywall will of tier 1 mythic will create bitterness in a large parts of the players base.
Sadly a large part of the player base will not even be seeing this until much later to voice their concerns or complaints. There is only a small part of the community on here discussing this all.

I think at tier 2 it’s expensive but reasonable, at tier 1 it gets $2000 extra added to the price and I’m questioning the direction.

I’m ok with tier 1 tokens in general but probably will never make one, and this is coming from someone with 8 legendary tokens.
I think the treadmill might be speeding up too fast at this point for the health of the game.

I'd say the CoA is the most expensive Legendary right now. And the Mythic Avarice being in Tier 1 and only granting one extra pull....well...that kinda seems like a treasure cap to me. Maybe that's the plan....

The one extra pull it grants is really more of a side benefit, although a really nice one. The main advantage of the Mythic Avarice is that it frees up four slots (1 Charm and 3 Bead). Plus of course the bragging rights of having the best Treasure Enhancing token.

Mike Steele wrote:

Rob F wrote:

Wayne Rhodes wrote:

Rob F wrote:

Wayne Rhodes wrote: I’d really like to see the avarice dropped to a tier 2 mythic. First there was already people purchasing beads this year knowing the recipe was going to require them.
2nd were not expecting 5 tiers of progressively increasing paywall in front of it. I think this will probably create a lot of hard feelings.

3rd you need under this proposal 1x safehold 1 per an avarice.

Right now if the only mythic you are willing to budget for is the new avarice it’s going to cost

1 CoA $1500
3 TE beads $300
Tier 1 kicker $2000
Safehold 2 800
Safehold 1 1000
$5600 total,

I’m not counting the other 3 levels of safehold because I see the value in them. Safehold 2 and safehold 1 are about making mythics

Dropping the avarice to a mythic 2 will get the price down to $3,600 and that’s still a lot but it’s less likely to run off players than the other price tag.

If I understand something wrong please correct me so I understand.

The Mythic Avarice will be the most sought after Token in the game. Why would the most sought after Token not be in the highest tier?

And maybe I missed something but whats the problem with the Bead of Bounty, are they no longer going to be used in the recipe?

Charm of avarice is currently the most sought after token in the game but that doesn’t make it the most expensive.

Second I have not seen anything saying the beads are not part of the transmute just that all mythics would require a legendary. The last I saw the plan was for the recipe to include 3 beads and avarice. If something has been said somewhere else please let me know where, i estimated $300 for all 3 beads

The avarice will only add 1 extra pull and based on past experience it will not stack with the beads or CoA, if it does stack with beads and CoA then I would agree it needs to be that high.

Getting left behind on TEs will fluster a lot of people, imposing the extra $2000 paywall will of tier 1 mythic will create bitterness in a large parts of the players base.
Sadly a large part of the player base will not even be seeing this until much later to voice their concerns or complaints. There is only a small part of the community on here discussing this all.

I think at tier 2 it’s expensive but reasonable, at tier 1 it gets $2000 extra added to the price and I’m questioning the direction.

I’m ok with tier 1 tokens in general but probably will never make one, and this is coming from someone with 8 legendary tokens.
I think the treadmill might be speeding up too fast at this point for the health of the game.

I'd say the CoA is the most expensive Legendary right now. And the Mythic Avarice being in Tier 1 and only granting one extra pull....well...that kinda seems like a treasure cap to me. Maybe that's the plan....

The one extra pull it grants is really more of a side benefit, although a really nice one. The main advantage of the Mythic Avarice is that it frees up four slots (1 Charm and 3 Bead). Plus of course the bragging rights of having the best Treasure Enhancing token.

Based on the past 2 years of token design, it seems the main advantage of the Mythic CoA (free up bead slots) is going to matter a lot less because an expander seems inevitable.

Endgame wrote: Based on the past 2 years of token design, it seems the main advantage of the Mythic CoA (free up bead slots) is going to matter a lot less because an expander seems inevitable.

And no doubt the bead expander will be much cheaper overall.

Endgame wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Rob F wrote:

Wayne Rhodes wrote:

Rob F wrote:

Wayne Rhodes wrote: I’d really like to see the avarice dropped to a tier 2 mythic. First there was already people purchasing beads this year knowing the recipe was going to require them.
2nd were not expecting 5 tiers of progressively increasing paywall in front of it. I think this will probably create a lot of hard feelings.

3rd you need under this proposal 1x safehold 1 per an avarice.

Right now if the only mythic you are willing to budget for is the new avarice it’s going to cost

1 CoA $1500
3 TE beads $300
Tier 1 kicker $2000
Safehold 2 800
Safehold 1 1000
$5600 total,

I’m not counting the other 3 levels of safehold because I see the value in them. Safehold 2 and safehold 1 are about making mythics

Dropping the avarice to a mythic 2 will get the price down to $3,600 and that’s still a lot but it’s less likely to run off players than the other price tag.

If I understand something wrong please correct me so I understand.

The Mythic Avarice will be the most sought after Token in the game. Why would the most sought after Token not be in the highest tier?

And maybe I missed something but whats the problem with the Bead of Bounty, are they no longer going to be used in the recipe?

Charm of avarice is currently the most sought after token in the game but that doesn’t make it the most expensive.

Second I have not seen anything saying the beads are not part of the transmute just that all mythics would require a legendary. The last I saw the plan was for the recipe to include 3 beads and avarice. If something has been said somewhere else please let me know where, i estimated $300 for all 3 beads

The avarice will only add 1 extra pull and based on past experience it will not stack with the beads or CoA, if it does stack with beads and CoA then I would agree it needs to be that high.

Getting left behind on TEs will fluster a lot of people, imposing the extra $2000 paywall will of tier 1 mythic will create bitterness in a large parts of the players base.
Sadly a large part of the player base will not even be seeing this until much later to voice their concerns or complaints. There is only a small part of the community on here discussing this all.

I think at tier 2 it’s expensive but reasonable, at tier 1 it gets $2000 extra added to the price and I’m questioning the direction.

I’m ok with tier 1 tokens in general but probably will never make one, and this is coming from someone with 8 legendary tokens.
I think the treadmill might be speeding up too fast at this point for the health of the game.

I'd say the CoA is the most expensive Legendary right now. And the Mythic Avarice being in Tier 1 and only granting one extra pull....well...that kinda seems like a treasure cap to me. Maybe that's the plan....

The one extra pull it grants is really more of a side benefit, although a really nice one. The main advantage of the Mythic Avarice is that it frees up four slots (1 Charm and 3 Bead). Plus of course the bragging rights of having the best Treasure Enhancing token.

Based on the past 2 years of token design, it seems the main advantage of the Mythic CoA (free up bead slots) is going to matter a lot less because an expander seems inevitable.

Not only this but it’s slotless AND it no longer requires synergy. It will give that amount no matter the amount of other mythical CoA, or other Legendary CoA

Wayne Rhodes wrote:

Rob F wrote:

Wayne Rhodes wrote:

Rob F wrote:

Wayne Rhodes wrote: I’d really like to see the avarice dropped to a tier 2 mythic. First there was already people purchasing beads this year knowing the recipe was going to require them.
2nd were not expecting 5 tiers of progressively increasing paywall in front of it. I think this will probably create a lot of hard feelings.

3rd you need under this proposal 1x safehold 1 per an avarice.

Right now if the only mythic you are willing to budget for is the new avarice it’s going to cost

1 CoA $1500
3 TE beads $300
Tier 1 kicker $2000
Safehold 2 800
Safehold 1 1000
$5600 total,

I’m not counting the other 3 levels of safehold because I see the value in them. Safehold 2 and safehold 1 are about making mythics

Dropping the avarice to a mythic 2 will get the price down to $3,600 and that’s still a lot but it’s less likely to run off players than the other price tag.

If I understand something wrong please correct me so I understand.

The Mythic Avarice will be the most sought after Token in the game. Why would the most sought after Token not be in the highest tier?

And maybe I missed something but whats the problem with the Bead of Bounty, are they no longer going to be used in the recipe?

Charm of avarice is currently the most sought after token in the game but that doesn’t make it the most expensive.

Second I have not seen anything saying the beads are not part of the transmute just that all mythics would require a legendary. The last I saw the plan was for the recipe to include 3 beads and avarice. If something has been said somewhere else please let me know where, i estimated $300 for all 3 beads

The avarice will only add 1 extra pull and based on past experience it will not stack with the beads or CoA, if it does stack with beads and CoA then I would agree it needs to be that high.

Getting left behind on TEs will fluster a lot of people, imposing the extra $2000 paywall will of tier 1 mythic will create bitterness in a large parts of the players base.
Sadly a large part of the player base will not even be seeing this until much later to voice their concerns or complaints. There is only a small part of the community on here discussing this all.

I think at tier 2 it’s expensive but reasonable, at tier 1 it gets $2000 extra added to the price and I’m questioning the direction.

I’m ok with tier 1 tokens in general but probably will never make one, and this is coming from someone with 8 legendary tokens.
I think the treadmill might be speeding up too fast at this point for the health of the game.

I'd say the CoA is the most expensive Legendary right now. And the Mythic Avarice being in Tier 1 and only granting one extra pull....well...that kinda seems like a treasure cap to me. Maybe that's the plan....

I didn’t say most expensive legendary, I said it wasn’t the most expensive token.

Rod of 7 parts
Ring of elemental Comand
Maybe boots of the 4 winds
Maybe skull of cavendar as well

Why do you want it so high. What is the benefit of having an extra 2k of cost for 1 token to you. I have explained my reasoning for thinking it should be cheaper but not cheap.

To me the benefit isn't the Token itself, it's more the direction of the game in terms of character advancement with Tokens. Having the top gear behind more costly tiers is better than releasing more and more slots which TD seems to have to do again and again every year now so players can increase their character's stats. Matt H did an analysis and we are now at 42 slots, most of these new ones over the last few years. New slots have really been the only way for players to advance their characters stats and even right now at 42 slots it's kind of ridiculous. With the new tiers the chase becomes upwards instead of slot expansion. And because it will take players longer to get there TD slows down power creep which has gotten out of control. Downside - Players that are used to increasing their characters stats like crazy every single year won't be able to. They may have to wait a few years or so to do it. Which I think is fine.