TOPIC: 2024 Ultra Rare Token Images < Feedback Please!

SnakeEyes (Eric) wrote: Wings of Wrath

Love the artwork and name. (So many awesomely sinister looking items this year!) But I think it's a waste of a token as it was made for melee fighters and back slots are already filled with "will use" tokens versus a "might use" token like this.

It's abilities just don't hold a candle to a Shadowskin or many of the other +Saves cloaks useful to melee fighters. The original +4 damage text was made it much more alluring but even so, it's tough to give up +3 or more saves on the off chance that there may be a "ranged only" enemy.

Give us another way to leap/fly for one room again!

Not every UR needs to be best in slot at that rarity. This token is fine, it combines the rare +2 cloak of resistance with a consumable potion effect, and removes the need to spend an action to activate it.

It is just fine as is.

Potion of Leaping Attack lasts for one room. One potion, which you can probably drink as a free action, and the UR Wings are outclassed.

Though, agreed, Gloves of the Flying Fist are overpowered, and not everybody needs to have the equivalent. On the other hand, a missile build functions perfectly well in melee, but the reverse is not true. If missile attackers can always fight equally well in melee (and don't ever have to deal with Retribution damage), there should be more ways for melee attackers to fight effectively in missile.

Endgame wrote: Problem statements

1) For role play reasons, heavy armor classes should be equipping shields in their melee offhand. However, drinking vessels (brawler's horn, brawler's mug) are generally the best offhand options to equip when desiring to deal damage

2) Fighter and Paladin underperform in combat given where we would expect them to be from a DnD context.


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True dungeon is not D&D.

Fighters in true dungeon are differentiated by having the best chance to hit in melee.

Paladins in true dungeon are differentiated by having multiple support abilities and will need to “attack well to be effective.”

4th level fighters are +4 to hit and +2 to damage in melee vs. 4th level paladins, which is a huge gap at the token 10 pack or 1-5 rares level of play.

TD Paladins don’t need to approach Fighters in melee effectiveness.

I agree fighters (and all one puck martial classes) are eclipsed by Monk and Ranger in a way that is bad for the game. TBTP don’t seem to agree though.

Jason Brown wrote: Where the Mystic Staff says "Ranged only" does that mean it can't be used in Melee? Is the rule that "Missile" attacks can be used in Melee, but not "Ranged" attacks? Or, do you just take a step back in Melee and use a Ranged attack? Just looking to clarify.

Also, the Boots of Defiance seem too limited in usefulness for anyone to bother equipping them. To be clear, first you have to die, and then you get to attack on the following round? What if you get brought back in the following round? Do you get to attack twice (probably not). Does anyone think this is worth getting as a PYP, because there are already lots of really good boots available. This would be a pretty awesome power for a Rare token.

Are the transmuted Greaves going to be part of the Arcanum set?

Mystic Saves are ranged weapons. That’s all it means. They are like a bow.

It’s to remove confusion because one might resonably assume that a staff is a melee weapon.

TD has very few rules for distance to target or movement. There are some rules related to surprise that limit the party to ranged attacks on the first round of combat, but those seem to be very sparingly applied.

In general, unless otherwise stated, all attack modes can be used in any combat scenario.

Matthew Hayward wrote: I agree fighters (and all one puck martial classes) are eclipsed by Monk and Ranger in a way that is bad for the game. TBTP don’t seem to agree though.

You know, if they just adjusted bonus damage from per attack to per round, I think that would solve the Ranger and Monk problem without much hassle. It wasn't an issue in the early days when bonus damage was on the order of +2, but now that it's +40 or more, the two-puck sliders are WAY overpowered.

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Endgame wrote: Problem statements

1) For role play reasons, heavy armor classes should be equipping shields in their melee offhand. However, drinking vessels (brawler's horn, brawler's mug) are generally the best offhand options to equip when desiring to deal damage

2) Fighter and Paladin underperform in combat given where we would expect them to be from a DnD context.


.

True dungeon is not D&D.

Fighters in true dungeon are differentiated by having the best chance to hit in melee.

Paladins in true dungeon are differentiated by having multiple support abilities and will need to “attack well to be effective.”

4th level fighters are +4 to hit and +2 to damage in melee vs. 4th level paladins, which is a huge gap at the token 10 pack or 1-5 rares level of play.

TD Paladins don’t need to approach Fighters in melee effectiveness.

I agree fighters (and all one puck martial classes) are eclipsed by Monk and Ranger in a way that is bad for the game. TBTP don’t seem to agree though.

As much as I hate to say I kinda agree. I’m a die hard paladin and will always be one, but this isn’t the paladin that I’m used to, it’s TD version of a one. Each class has its perks, and in most cases is our preformed by others. But that’s what sets up a “ team “. Different skills and abilities all sync’ing for one. I’d love to have a harder hit, it sucks watching everyone hit more efficiently, harder and for wayyy more damage than me… but I take solace in the fact that I can help protect my team.
Long story short: did a double down run with 4 others on NM. I was paladin using dual guard. I had buffed my hit to counter the high AC of the twin elements, but something amazing happened… they never touched us. My high AC with triple guard allowed me to protect them. Now, this is only possible with low amount of players buts something way different than my epic run where they hand AC of 45 and unless I rolled a natural 20 crit, couldn’t hit. The point of my story is… would I love to hit like a tank, yes, even 1/2 of a tank.. yes, but in TD my function is different as is every other character. As much as I’d like to walk in and turn on God Mode…but this is about builds and playing the dungeon smart… Side note: the boss… was not my friend 😂😂 guard did nothing which bummed me out

Thinking about the Troll charm. Coronet of the arch Druid has 1 point lower average damage, uses a more important slot, and consumes two spells to change form.

To prevent creep, the damage wheel should probably be more like 6-7-8-10-12-13

Jason Brown wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: I agree fighters (and all one puck martial classes) are eclipsed by Monk and Ranger in a way that is bad for the game. TBTP don’t seem to agree though.

You know, if they just adjusted bonus damage from per attack to per round, I think that would solve the Ranger and Monk problem without much hassle. It wasn't an issue in the early days when bonus damage was on the order of +2, but now that it's +40 or more, the two-puck sliders are WAY overpowered.

We agree - however this has been pointed out consistently in design for several years now, and TPTB don't engage with those discussions or make changes. So I infer they don't see it that way.

Endgame wrote: Thinking about the Troll charm. Coronet of the arch Druid has 1 point lower average damage, uses a more important slot, and consumes two spells to change form.

To prevent creep, the damage wheel should probably be more like 6-7-8-10-12-13

I disagree. Cornet of the Druid can be used more than once and head slot is less important than a charm slot. The damage on the charm is fine.

I think the bigger issue is that the damage is less than Iktomi’s and it take a charm slot making it kind of useless to a well geared Druid. Lowering it’s damage would just make it more so.

Matthew Hayward wrote:

SnakeEyes (Eric) wrote: Wings of Wrath

Love the artwork and name. (So many awesomely sinister looking items this year!) But I think it's a waste of a token as it was made for melee fighters and back slots are already filled with "will use" tokens versus a "might use" token like this.

It's abilities just don't hold a candle to a Shadowskin or many of the other +Saves cloaks useful to melee fighters. The original +4 damage text was made it much more alluring but even so, it's tough to give up +3 or more saves on the off chance that there may be a "ranged only" enemy.

Give us another way to leap/fly for one room again!

Not every UR needs to be best in slot at that rarity. This token is fine, it combines the rare +2 cloak of resistance with a consumable potion effect, and removes the need to spend an action to activate it.

It is just fine as is.

+1. I think it's fine as well.

If we are going to keep the bead expander I vote for moving it to the pants slot, because this post is genius.

truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=5&id=255917#440125

We should all be so lucky as to own bedazzled pants!

OrionW wrote: If we are going to keep the bead expander I vote for moving it to the pants slot, because this post is genius.

truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=5&id=255917#440125

We should all be so lucky as to own bedazzled pants!

A fun idea if we have to have it. I'd rather see it dropped but if it's happening no matter what we could do this and make it a volunteer reward