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TOPIC: 2024 Ultra Rare Token Images < Feedback Please!

2024 Ultra Rare Token Images < Feedback Please! 1 year 2 months ago #49

The troll shield feels relic level. Recommend swapping the +str with +2 hit. This would bring the shield back to UR level.

Fixing the human fighter should not be done through gear only. The problem is that dwarf fighter is in a great place. Before throwing caution to the wind on human fighter gear the cards should be tweaked to make them more equal.

Edit: Maybe +3 hit with the added restriction on the shield
Last edit: by OrionW.
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2024 Ultra Rare Token Images < Feedback Please! 1 year 2 months ago #50

Hi Jeff!

Here are some more detailed thoughts:

Bead of Shared Health: Great token, my friends love Regeneration, but I won't be getting any because all of our slots will be full of TE tokens eventually. There have been a lot of great beads recently, maybe replace this with Gloves of Flying Fist this year?

Belt of Beads: Probably better at 2 beads.

Boots of Defiance: We would never get this, how often do characters die these days? I'd rather invest in a super cheap Potion of Deaths Door or the slotless Druegar's Death Die.

Charm of Trollform: I already commented on this, please make it Druid only and enhance in some way Iktomi's.

Figurine of Power Cat: Great reprint

Gloves of Divine Touch - Our Cleric will definitely get this, I may get it for my Druid also.

Greaves of the Stalwart - this seems VERY weak, as does the transmute. I think this ability would even be weak on a rare token. The only reason to get it for me would be the Arcanum set bonus, but we don't know what that is yet. Plus, I suspect very soon there will be a shin slot token that is much better than the transmute would be. I don't want another underpowered multi-year like the Kilt of Dungeonbane. Here is my recommendation: Make this one -2 to all damage, make next year's 2-3 points of regeneration, and the third year +5 HP, and have the transmute combine all three.

Libram of Looting: Great reprint.

Mystic Staff: This seems aimed more at the Normal/Hardcore level of player, which is fine.

Troll Shield: This seems overpowered, although the requirement to equip it in ranged and melee helps. Maybe restrict it to Barbarians and Fighters.

Wings of Wrath: This is worth considering, I'm not sure if the single melee attack at ranged is equal to plus one saves. If it operated like Potion Leaping Attack and let you melee attack at ranged for one room per game I would get it for sure.

Ancient's tokens: I see why you are making it "attribute of choice" to apply to as many classes as possible. Is this going to make things difficult in coaching rooms and character generators?

Thanks!
Mike
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2024 Ultra Rare Token Images < Feedback Please! 1 year 2 months ago #51

Lequinian wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Powerblade3 wrote:

Lequinian wrote: Why plus damage for 2H only for wings?


I think the intent is to prevent the wings from becoming too attractive to 1H attackers, especially monk and ranger. That said, I'm personally fine with the wings are is now, though the ability could maybe be 1/room.

Exactly this. When that call for token ideas came out, I had been mulling over ideas for how to incorporate another +5 2H damage item into the game for variety. I didn’t come up with anything good, so I didn’t suggest anything. The first version of this token filled in the blank and I like it.


When you prevent rangers and monks from going nuts, you prevent fighters from advancing.

I’m all for a 2H token boost of some sort.

But wings looks like a must have in the arsenal. The saves puts it on par with several existing back items.


I would much prefer to see this remain +2 saves. Saves are important and this is in a slot that can be used at high levels of play.
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2024 Ultra Rare Token Images < Feedback Please! 1 year 2 months ago #52

Wings of Wrath: is this for an entire room once per game or only one round per game? If it is the second I am not sure how useful it would be. I originally was thinking it was for an entire room.
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2024 Ultra Rare Token Images < Feedback Please! 1 year 2 months ago #53

Problem statements

1) For role play reasons, heavy armor classes should be equipping shields in their melee offhand. However, drinking vessels (brawler's horn, brawler's mug) are generally the best offhand options to equip when desiring to deal damage

2) Fighter and Paladin underperform in combat given where we would expect them to be from a DnD context.

Assumptions

1) AC is one of the least value attributes for all classes. You only get hit by monsters a few times over the course of a dungeon, and many time those hits are things that ignore AC, such as AoE effects, Save effects, etc. Puzzle/trap damage is by far a larger danger, so generally, classes should avoid AC in favor of HP when possible.

2) Given Dwarf Fighter can Taunt and force a monster to attack (thus partially negating item 1), they will favor the Redoubt set's 5AC shield over brawler's horn / mug / orb of might / or lower AC shield even if it benefits their combat stats.

3) Melee offhand should be an advantage for heavy armor classes to differentiate them from classes without. Given assumption 1, AC only is an insufficient advantage.

Edit
4) One would not specifically expect Cleric to seek a +3 str shield, so they are fairly irrelevant to the discussion. That said, it wouldn't really break anything for them to remain on a +3 AC +3 Str shield - it's better and more thematic than a Cleric equipping a brawler's horn or Brawler's mug if they want to be more effective in combat.
Last edit: by Endgame.
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2024 Ultra Rare Token Images < Feedback Please! 1 year 2 months ago #54

Endgame wrote: Problem statements

1) For role play reasons, heavy armor classes should be equipping shields in their melee offhand. However, drinking vessels (brawler's horn, brawler's mug) are generally the best offhand options to equip when desiring to deal damage

2) Fighter and Paladin underperform in combat given where we would expect them to be from a DnD context.

Assumptions

1) AC is one of the least value attributes for all classes. You only get hit by monsters a few times over the course of a dungeon, and many time those hits are things that ignore AC, such as AoE effects, Save effects, etc. Puzzle/trap damage is by far a larger danger, so generally, classes should avoid AC in favor of HP when possible.

2) Given Dwarf Fighter can Taunt and force a monster to attack (thus partially negating item 1), they will favor the Redoubt set's 5AC shield over brawler's horn / mug / orb of might / or lower AC shield even if it benefits their combat stats.

3) Melee offhand should be an advantage for heavy armor classes to differentiate them from classes without. Given assumption 1, AC only is an insufficient advantage.


If the goal is to get the fighters a bit more thematic with the shields we could address that when we redo the cards later this year by giving a bonus for using a shield in the melee offhand. Maybe just give a +1 to hit in melee is using a shield in melee offhand.
Just a thought and it would at least a nice class benefit at the same time.
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2024 Ultra Rare Token Images < Feedback Please! 1 year 2 months ago #55

Wayne Rhodes wrote:

Endgame wrote: Problem statements

1) For role play reasons, heavy armor classes should be equipping shields in their melee offhand. However, drinking vessels (brawler's horn, brawler's mug) are generally the best offhand options to equip when desiring to deal damage

2) Fighter and Paladin underperform in combat given where we would expect them to be from a DnD context.

Assumptions

1) AC is one of the least value attributes for all classes. You only get hit by monsters a few times over the course of a dungeon, and many time those hits are things that ignore AC, such as AoE effects, Save effects, etc. Puzzle/trap damage is by far a larger danger, so generally, classes should avoid AC in favor of HP when possible.

2) Given Dwarf Fighter can Taunt and force a monster to attack (thus partially negating item 1), they will favor the Redoubt set's 5AC shield over brawler's horn / mug / orb of might / or lower AC shield even if it benefits their combat stats.

3) Melee offhand should be an advantage for heavy armor classes to differentiate them from classes without. Given assumption 1, AC only is an insufficient advantage.


If the goal is to get the fighters a bit more thematic with the shields we could address that when we redo the cards later this year by giving a bonus for using a shield in the melee offhand. Maybe just give a +1 to hit in melee is using a shield in melee offhand.
Just a thought and it would at least a nice class benefit at the same time.


Question: aren’t fighters melee / hand to hand combatants ? Similar to the Monk? If they are hand to hand specialists should they get some similar to the monks flying fists ? Or are they a blend between paladins and monks ?
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2024 Ultra Rare Token Images < Feedback Please! 1 year 2 months ago #56

Tyraël The Just wrote: Question: aren’t fighters melee / hand to hand combatants ? Similar to the Monk? If they are hand to hand specialists should they get some similar to the monks flying fists ? Or are they a blend between paladins and monks ?

Which edition of DnD are you drawing inspiration from? I believe the further back you go, Monks generally fight without weapon and are a lot more Cleric like. The further back you go, the more fighters are the masters of combat in general, with more attack than other classes and the ability to become a grand master in a weapon class (ranged or melee, fighter's choice) where they get large bonuses to hit and damage and more attacks.
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2024 Ultra Rare Token Images < Feedback Please! 1 year 2 months ago #57

Endgame wrote:

Tyraël The Just wrote: Question: aren’t fighters melee / hand to hand combatants ? Similar to the Monk? If they are hand to hand specialists should they get some similar to the monks flying fists ? Or are they a blend between paladins and monks ?

Which edition of DnD are you drawing inspiration from? I believe the further back you go, Monks generally fight without weapon and are a lot more Cleric like. The further back you go, the more fighters are the masters of combat in general, with more attack than other classes and the ability to become a grand master in a weapon class (ranged or melee, fighter's choice) where they get large bonuses to hit and damage and more attacks.


I was actually just reading the TD player cards. Trying to set up a 2nd character. That’s where it told about the hand to hand..
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2024 Ultra Rare Token Images < Feedback Please! 1 year 2 months ago #58

Mike Steele wrote: Greaves of the Stalwart - this seems VERY weak, as does the transmute. I think this ability would even be weak on a rare token. The only reason to get it for me would be the Arcanum set bonus, but we don't know what that is yet. Plus, I suspect very soon there will be a shin slot token that is much better than the transmute would be. I don't want another underpowered multi-year like the Kilt of Dungeonbane. Here is my recommendation: Make this one -2 to all damage, make next year's 2-3 points of regeneration, and the third year +5 HP, and have the transmute combine all three.


...kilt is the best token in that slot for literally every class. I don't know what's right for the greaves, but kilt is 100% not underpowered. That recommendation is busted: the first straight up is better than last year's UR, as is.

OrionW wrote: Wings of Wrath: is this for an entire room once per game or only one round per game? If it is the second I am not sure how useful it would be. I originally was thinking it was for an entire room.


Good point. They might be concerned with the fact that usually it only matters in one room, so its almost passively always on if it's for the entire room? I'm not sure what the in between is, maybe a cost to use or something?
Last edit: by ini.
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2024 Ultra Rare Token Images < Feedback Please! 1 year 2 months ago #59

ini wrote: Good point. They might be concerned with the fact that usually it only matters in one room, so its almost passively always on if it's for the entire room? I'm not sure what the in between is, maybe a cost to use or something?

Charm of the Faerie gives 1 / room. If Wings of Wrath were 1/room along with Boots of Bounding (already 1/room), you could basically make melee attacks against flying all the time. This seems fair for 3 slots worth of commitment, and I'd totally support the Wings going 1/room over 1/game.
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2024 Ultra Rare Token Images < Feedback Please! 1 year 2 months ago #60

ini wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: Greaves of the Stalwart - this seems VERY weak, as does the transmute. I think this ability would even be weak on a rare token. The only reason to get it for me would be the Arcanum set bonus, but we don't know what that is yet. Plus, I suspect very soon there will be a shin slot token that is much better than the transmute would be. I don't want another underpowered multi-year like the Kilt of Dungeonbane. Here is my recommendation: Make this one -2 to all damage, make next year's 2-3 points of regeneration, and the third year +5 HP, and have the transmute combine all three.


...kilt is the best token in that slot for literally every class. I don't know what's right for the greaves, but kilt is 100% not underpowered. That recommendation is busted: the first straight up is better than last year's UR, as is.


I'd say the first is pretty close to last year since last year prevents the same damage against most damage types. But, for the sake of arguement, I'd revise it to -1 Damage from all sources this year, 2 points of Regeneration next year, +5 HP the 3rd year, and combine the three for the transmute (maybe bumping it back up to -2 damage from all sources at that point).
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