TOPIC: Safehold Program Details - Feedback Please!

What if the “five items” were actually 1x to 5x. And that reflects cost such that base cost is dependent on the token used.

Mike Steele wrote:

Andy Strassmann wrote: I respectfully but strongly suggest that TD sets pricing/recipes by taking a hard look at the target market.

If the goal of Safehold Vs is to excite new folks about transmuting (and coming back more so they can make transmutes happen), you’re talking about occasional players whose builds have a few Rares and often no TEs. Set the recipes so that they can get an appropriately-powered slotless buff with loot from a few runs and they’ll have a goal worth coming back for. Set the starter recipes at the UR (much less Relic) price level and you’re telling them that TD is only for the big spenders—a message that will actively turn potential loyal/happy players off.

Big jumps in recipe costs and benefits between Safehold levels are fine as long as each level matches the target demographic.

There are transmutes every year aimed at that level of token spending, so hopefully those will act as an entry point for transmuting to get people excited about tokens and transmuting. To me, those are much better as entry points for beginning transmuting than the Safehold program.

+1. Exalted and Enhanced. And if one fails to transmute them in the time frame allowed they are still easy and affordable to find. If someone is building a "Safehold" (at any level) they should already be somewhat invested in the game.

Rob F wrote:

Cassie wrote:

Rob F wrote:

Kenban wrote: I think the recipe should be more generic,...
80x if any Trade 1
10x of any trade 2
2x Golden Fleece...

This is worth considering. I think Ian and a few others mentioned it as well. Much easier to tweak this type of recipe each year however I wonder what this would do to the trade good market..could be bad..????..... where's Matt Hayward when you need a statistical critique.

It would make it harder to adjust the price of a specific trade good you wanted to target. The result would be the cheapest trade good being (nearly) the only one used and none of the others until all trade 1s and 2s eventually equal out in price within their group (in theory)

Thanks for the insight and sub'ing in for Matt!

Lol - I’m not sure if I’m the Matt being referred to, but I actually like the idea of the recipes slurping up some amount of “generic” trade goods at certain levels.

I don’t see a problem with all trade goods writhing a tier trending to the same price.

Who does it benefit that PS costs 1 dollar one year and 7 dollars two years later? I’m not sure TD benefits - and I’m not sure the majority of plaers, or the majority of big spenders benefit either.

I think it would be cool of TD to try this for the first year recipes, or maybe a hybrid where half the trade goods are specific and half are just generic “any trade good X.”

Tyraël The Just wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Tyraël The Just wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Tyraël The Just wrote: is the Mythic totem of avarice in any way connected to the uber avarice that is coming after all the beads ?

If I understand correctly this is that Uber Avarice token. They are timing it so that it comes out after the beads, since you can't get Safehold I until 2026.

in order to make the mythic I will have to have Safehold II or I correct ?

It is a Tier 1 Mythic so you'd need a Safehold I to transmute the Mythic Totem of Avarice.

not trying to sound like a downer, but that means only safe hold I owners can create and own them. doesnt this restrict the ability of others to make them ? or am I missing the bigger picture? im still relatively new around here and am trying to understand how it benefits TD by making the best TE locked behind 5 levels ( + the 5 constructions ).. I know I have seen many talk about the glut of Trade goods and this is to help combat that

I think basically yes but there are a few nuances:

1. Anyone can own these tokens, there are no restrictions on that.

2. Anyone who has a Mater Mythic Transmuter can transmute any mythic token. Simply transmuting these things does not require a safehold of any kind.

However to use/equip the mythic tokens you have to show during coaching the relevant safehold level, e.g. a I or II depending on the token.

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Rob F wrote:

Cassie wrote:

Rob F wrote:

Kenban wrote: ...

..... where's Matt Hayward when you need a statistical critique.

It would make it harder to adjust the price of a specific trade good you wanted to target. The result would be the cheapest trade good being (nearly) the only one used and none of the others until all trade 1s and 2s eventually equal out in price within their group (in theory)

Thanks for the insight and sub'ing in for Matt!

Lol - I’m not sure if I’m the Matt being referred to, but I actually like the idea of the recipes slurping up some amount of “generic” trade goods at certain levels.

You were

Matthew Hayward wrote: Who does it benefit that PS costs 1 dollar one year and 7 dollars two years later? I’m not sure TD benefits - and I’m not sure the majority of plaers, or the majority of big spenders benefit either.

But that's not applicable to this recipe - it has already been mentioned that it will be adjusted each year.

Adjusting multiple recipes every year for the same things just sounds painful.

Jeff Greene wrote:

Matt wrote: For something that's supposed to be approachable that initial recipe does feel fairly expensive. Especially for folk's who's main source of trade good is what they transmute from treasure pulls.

Rather see early tiers much more approachable with it scaling up as things go on. Better chance to get folks hooked on saving up.

I had a similar reaction. Overall the recipe looks ok, but 12 EM jumped out at me. Speaking just for me, EM is one of the trade goods I accumulate slowly.

There is always a big problem with EM:

And 8k order condenses to roughly between 50-120 of every trade 1 good except EM, for which there are only 20.

In other words, you need to buy around $400 worth of token 10 packs to get enough materials to transmute a single Enchanter’s Munition token.

TD keeps proposing recipes with large amounts of EM however, so maybe stock up on however much EM you think you’ll need while it’s still cheap.

Tyraël The Just wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Tyraël The Just wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Tyraël The Just wrote: is the Mythic totem of avarice in any way connected to the uber avarice that is coming after all the beads ?

If I understand correctly this is that Uber Avarice token. They are timing it so that it comes out after the beads, since you can't get Safehold I until 2026.

in order to make the mythic I will have to have Safehold II or I correct ?

It is a Tier 1 Mythic so you'd need a Safehold I to transmute the Mythic Totem of Avarice.

not trying to sound like a downer, but that means only safe hold I owners can create and own them. doesnt this restrict the ability of others to make them ? or am I missing the bigger picture? im still relatively new around here and am trying to understand how it benefits TD by making the best TE locked behind 5 levels ( + the 5 constructions ).. I know I have seen many talk about the glut of Trade goods and this is to help combat that

EDIT: would this also remove the ability to share them with players that dont have them much like we do now COA, CAS, Harlax and nuggets ? we would be able to share all except the mythic ( or others created by the safehold program since u can only use them if you have to corresponding Safehold lvl. I would also venture to bet that we can only make one of each not matter the level.

Someone could make five Mythic Avarice tokens with the five transmuter tokens they get with Safehold I, but that wouldn't do much good since they can only be used with a Safehold I. I do agree that it removes the ability for someone to loan them out, unless they transmute multiple Safehold I Tokens - they can loan a set of Safehold I and Mythic Avarice tokens. And I don't thing it is as a bad thing that they can't be loaned out, I don't see people joining pickup groups with sets of 10 TE tokens to loan out (and often take a cut from) as a necessarily positive thing. That has probably contributed significantly to the total treasure pulled and the resulting dilution of treasure pulls.

I'm also one of the people that will almost certainly never have a Mythic Token of Avarice, and it doesn't really bother me. It only grants one more treasure chip than the CoA plus the three beads provides. I don't mind filling up my group's bead slots with TE tokens, I've always said given the opportunity I'd fill ever slot with TE tokens.

makes sense. you mentioned 5 Mythic 1 transmuter tokens that come with Safehold 1, is this just the ones that automatically come with the Safehold 1, then if you were to make more than 5 mythic, you would have to make more of the Master Mythic Transmuter to craft more Mythic 1 tokens.. correct ?

I would prefer that no Mythic tokens makes existing Legendary or Eldritch Relic tokens obsolete, with the exception of Treasure Enhancers, and potentially mainhand/offhand items.

By obsolete I mean there is no reason to equip the existing Legendary/Eldrtich token any longer, given the existence of the new Mythic token.

For example, the proposed Mythic +10 STR waist slot item will make Legendary Surtr's Girdle of Fire Giant Strength obsolete, since there is no reason to equip Surtr's Girdle if you can equip a mythic +10 STR belt.

To avoid this outcome, there are only a few slots to be concerned about: waist, neck, torso, finger, feet or wrist slot.

Every other slot either has no Legendary / Eldritch Token, or has/will have a way to equip a Mythic as well as every existing Legendary / Eldritch Relic tokens.

I'd focus Mythics on slots that either have less contention, or do not currently have a contested Legendary or Eldritch Relic token, e.g.:

First go after Mythics in these slots: Back, Bead, Charm, Ear, Eyes, Figurine, Hands, Ioun Stone, Shins.

Then go after: Head, Legs, Shirt (which will all gain the capacity to have a free slot with the Safehold program).

For instance, I believe a +7 STR gloves Mythic would be about as desirable as a +10 STR waist Mythic, and wouldn't have the side effect of obsoleting a Legendary token.

Aren’t mythic intended to be the next step on the chain? Relic -> legendary -> mythic. I would expect basically all legendary to be superseded unless there is a limit to number of mythic that can be equipped

Edit - wasn’t it even hinted that mythic recipes would include the legendary in the same slot?

Matthew Hayward wrote: I would prefer that no Mythic tokens makes existing Legendary or Eldritch Relic tokens obsolete, with the exception of Treasure Enhancers, and potentially mainhand/offhand items.

By obsolete I mean there is no reason to equip the existing Legendary/Eldrtich token any longer, given the existence of the new Mythic token.

For example, the proposed Mythic +10 STR waist slot item will make Legendary Surtr's Girdle of Fire Giant Strength obsolete, since there is no reason to equip Surtr's Girdle if you can equip a mythic +10 STR belt.

To avoid this outcome, there are only a few slots to be concerned about: waist, neck, torso, finger, feet or wrist slot.

Every other slot either has no Legendary / Eldritch Token, or has/will have a way to equip a Mythic as well as every existing Legendary / Eldritch Relic tokens.

I'd focus Mythics on slots that either have less contention, or do not currently have a contested Legendary or Eldritch Relic token, e.g.:

First go after Mythics in these slots: Back, Bead, Charm, Ear, Eyes, Figurine, Hands, Ioun Stone, Shins.

Then go after: Head, Legs, Shirt (which will all gain the capacity to have a free slot with the Safehold program).

For instance, I believe a +7 STR gloves Mythic would be about as desirable as a +10 STR waist Mythic, and wouldn't have the side effect of obsoleting a Legendary token.

I agree with you regarding Eldritch & Arcanum tokens, but I actually see Mythic tokens as a natural progression from UR/Relic/Legendary/Mythic. Mythic tokens will obsolete Legendary tokens in the same way that Legendary obsolete Relics. And it doesn't really obsolete them, because there will be a large pool of players (I'm guessing) that play at the Legendary level but not Mythic level.

I'm guessing it's not a coincidence that the Omni tokens are enabling us to transmute pretty much all Legendary tokens, as I'd guess that many/all of these recipes will include a Legendary token as part of the recipe. Using the example you gave, perhaps the Legendary Surtr's Girdle of Fire Giant Strength will be an ingredient in the +10 St Belt.