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TOPIC: April 14 Ultra Rares

April 14 Ultra Rares 4 months 1 day ago #25

My head slot is full, so is my wrist slot, neck, torso, waist, legs, feet, shirt. Not seeing how that justifies increasing the power of the next token in each of those slots from a player's standpoint. Now, sure, from the vendor's standpoint, having new tokens just be better than old gives some reason for people to treadmill.

Of course, if you are already as powered up as you need to be, then don't need anything to be better. Maybe only ever interested in different rather than better for variety's sake.
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April 14 Ultra Rares 4 months 1 day ago #26

Wayne Rhodes wrote: I’d like to see the Ioun stone go back to a +3 personally. The Ioun stone slot is so full right now that I’m not sure how many people will really want it at +2

My Ioun stones for example
Silver nugget
Gold nugget
Platinum nugget
Topaz trilliant
Tanzanite cube
Mystic orb
Last slot will rotate of
Banshee prisms
Quicksilver cube

I expect this is common and with more good Ioun stones than I can run I just don’t see it getting PYPed if it’s only +2 cold plus -2 cold damage.

Just my opinion


If you are maxed out then maybe not but how many players have all the Stones you do? So guess it depends on how you look at it. For new, or non-veteran/maxed players +2 cold and -2 cold damage is a really good UR Stone. And depending on your class played you could argue swapping it out for your Quicksilver or Tanzanite.
"Many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our point of view" - Obi Wan Kenobi
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April 14 Ultra Rares 4 months 1 day ago #27

Jeff Martin wrote:

OrionW wrote: Both the gloves and robes are no longer attractive to my Druid build. Hopefully we can get something better next year. Disappointed to say the least.

Edit: Can we maybe change the Arcane Charm to +2 focus (include polymorph damage) so there is at least something in this year's set?


Done! Thanks.


Awesome :) Thanks for the change!
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April 14 Ultra Rares 4 months 1 day ago #28

OrionW wrote:

Jeff Martin wrote:

OrionW wrote: Both the gloves and robes are no longer attractive to my Druid build. Hopefully we can get something better next year. Disappointed to say the least.

Edit: Can we maybe change the Arcane Charm to +2 focus (include polymorph damage) so there is at least something in this year's set?


Done! Thanks.


Awesome :) Thanks for the change!


Now that there are four Arcane tokens, maybe there can be a four token set ability?

Maybe instead of "When all three items are equipped, the first 0–2nd-level spell the wearer casts is not marked off their character card." for the three item bonus, the four item bonus could replace it as "When all four items are equipped, the first 0–3rd-level spell the wearer casts is not marked off their character card. This set bonus replaces the three item set bonus"

Or maybe "When all four items are equipped, a 0–2nd-level spell the wearer chooses is not marked off their character card when cast. This set bonus replaces the three item set bonus"
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April 14 Ultra Rares 4 months 1 day ago #29

Rob F wrote: Things could be worse Mike. You could always be a Fighter or Bard... ;)


It hurts cause it’s true... :P (cry)

2024 ... year of the HF...

Seriously, since there are so many cleric items this year, and the gauntlets have gotten pretty meh for the +1 healing... how about something for the board and sword crowd instead like +3 to melee & +shield bonus to damage (max 4). Not poly druids cause they don’t get nice stuff.
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April 14 Ultra Rares 4 months 1 day ago #30

Vectoring this post from the other thread as this one seems more likely to be read:

Jeff Martin wrote:

Josh M. wrote: On the UR Necklace of the Zephyr, what does "No mods allowed" mean?

.


Thanks for the feedback!

Necklace - you cannot modify the spell for extra damage in any way -- just like with the Bracelets.


TL;DR: Please don't print Necklace of the Zephr with the restriction that spells not be modifiable, I'd suggest to instead remove that token from the 2023 collection and add in a desirable reprint (or alter the current effect somehow).

Details:

This is a huge bummer for me; I think this token sailed through design without comment because everyone though it was OK, and the spells were modifiable, just as those cast through Ring of Quick Blessing's spell portion which had the same wording.

I feel given what Ring of Quick Blessing does, having a a similar effect in the neck slot and allowing modifications was reasonable.

There is an existing Rare neck item (Necklace of the Norns ) with a similar effect to the proposed Zephyr effect, except:

1. You don't have to mark the spell you cast with a free action off your card.
2. But it is limited to 1st level spells, and must be used in the round you case a 1st level spell.

This iteration of Necklace of the Zephyr is arguably worse than:

* rare Neclkace of the Norms.
* rare Ring of the Norns which has the same effect as Necklace of the Norns but is limited to level 0 spells and in a ring slot
* Ultra Rare Earcuff of Energy , which has the same effect as Necklace of the Norns but in the Ear slot
* The 15 year old 3c combo token Bracelets of the Zephyr , due to the wrist to neck slot move which is both a more powerful slot in general, and also prevents equipping the new Necklace of the Zephyr with class based relics and legendries

I have a strong preference to not printing this token at UR.

Rather than printing this, I suggest to drop it and put in a reprint people were asking for.

If there is a desire to have a free action spell something-or-other in the neck slot this year, here are some ways that the tokens power could be placed somewhere between where it is now and the prior versions where (people thought?) spells cast with it were modified by spell healing/damage modifiers.

* Spells can be modified, but are limited to some levels

* Recast an unmodified version of a spell just cast, with a wider range of spells than Rare Necklace of the Norns (Level 0-2?, Level 1-2? etc.)

* Spells can be modified, but only certain spells may be cast this way, e.g.: Only healing spells, only damage spells, or only healing and damage spells, only non healing spells, only non damage spells

* Spells can be modified, but the number of activations is reduced from 1/room down to 2 or 3/game

* Spells can be modified, but can only be cast as a free action when some other precondition is met:
+ In the first round of combat when the party wins initiative
+ In the first round of combat when the party rolls a 15+ on initiative
+ You damaged a monster last round
+ A monster damage you last round
+ Only usable during the 3rd round of combat
etc.

Alternatively:

For some of those brainstormed effects, I think it also should move out of the neck slot. For example, if it were to allow you to cast a spell as a free action when the party rolls a 15+ on initiative, this would seem to be a spellcaster version of Charm of Quick Strike, and might be better in the charm slot.

P.S.: The reason I care about this is not because every caster token has to go in my build; it's that:

1. think this token is a very lower power level, and is likely to be used in future baselining of power levels for caster tokens (it took the better part of a decade to get people onboard with the idea that +1 Focus at UR should not be the par value of caster rings).

2. I think in general tokens that give people ways to cast spells that can't be modified should be retired as a token concept. It is is in direct tension with what TD/token design seems to be about: which is collecting tokens that boost your core mechanics. A token that uses your core mechanic (casting spells), but disables all your other gear that synergizes with that mechanic does not add positive enjoyment to the game on balance, I feel.
Last edit: by Matthew Hayward.
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April 14 Ultra Rares 4 months 1 day ago #31

Can you believe it's only been two weeks since this started with a non-april-fools post?

Incredible how fast design went this year.
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April 14 Ultra Rares 4 months 1 day ago #32

Matthew Hayward wrote: Vectoring this post from the other thread as this one seems more likely to be read:

Jeff Martin wrote:

Josh M. wrote: On the UR Necklace of the Zephyr, what does "No mods allowed" mean?

.


Thanks for the feedback!

Necklace - you cannot modify the spell for extra damage in any way -- just like with the Bracelets.


TL;DR: Please don't print Necklace of the Zephr with the restriction that spells not be modifiable, I'd suggest to instead remove that token from the 2023 collection and add in a desirable reprint (or alter the current effect somehow).

Details:

This is a huge bummer for me; I think this token sailed through design without comment because everyone though it was OK, and the spells were modifiable, just as those cast through Ring of Quick Blessing's spell portion which had the same wording.

I feel given what Ring of Quick Blessing does, having a a similar effect in the neck slot and allowing modifications was reasonable.

There is an existing Rare neck item (Necklace of the Norns ) with a similar effect to the proposed Zephyr effect, except:

1. You don't have to mark the spell you cast with a free action off your card.
2. But it is limited to 1st level spells, and must be used in the round you case a 1st level spell.

This iteration of Necklace of the Zephyr is arguably worse than:

* rare Neclkace of the Norms.
* rare Ring of the Norns which has the same effect as Necklace of the Norns but is limited to level 0 spells and in a ring slot
* Ultra Rare Earcuff of Energy , which has the same effect as Necklace of the Norns but in the Ear slot
* The 15 year old 3c combo token Bracelets of the Zephyr , due to the wrist to neck slot move which is both a more powerful slot in general, and also prevents equipping the new Necklace of the Zephyr with class based relics and legendries

I have a strong preference to not printing this token at UR.

Rather than printing this, I suggest to drop it and put in a reprint people were asking for.

If there is a desire to have a free action spell something-or-other in the neck slot this year, here are some ways that the tokens power could be placed somewhere between where it is now and the prior versions where (people thought?) spells cast with it were modified by spell healing/damage modifiers.

* Spells can be modified, but are limited to some levels

* Recast an unmodified version of a spell just cast, with a wider range of spells than Rare Necklace of the Norns (Level 0-2?, Level 1-2? etc.)

* Spells can be modified, but only certain spells may be cast this way, e.g.: Only healing spells, only damage spells, or only healing and damage spells, only non healing spells, only non damage spells

* Spells can be modified, but the number of activations is reduced from 1/room down to 2 or 3/game

* Spells can be modified, but can only be cast as a free action when some other precondition is met:
+ In the first round of combat when the party wins initiative
+ In the first round of combat when the party rolls a 15+ on initiative
+ You damaged a monster last round
+ A monster damage you last round
+ Only usable during the 3rd round of combat
etc.

Alternatively:

For some of those brainstormed effects, I think it also should move out of the neck slot. For example, if it were to allow you to cast a spell as a free action when the party rolls a 15+ on initiative, this would seem to be a spellcaster version of Charm of Quick Strike, and might be better in the charm slot.

P.S.: The reason I care about this is not because every caster token has to go in my build; it's that:

1. think this token is a very lower power level, and is likely to be used in future baselining of power levels for caster tokens (it took the better part of a decade to get people onboard with the idea that +1 Focus at UR should not be the par value of caster rings).

2. I think in general tokens that give people ways to cast spells that can't be modified should be retired as a token concept. It is is in direct tension with what TD/token design seems to be about: which is collecting tokens that boost your core mechanics. A token that uses your core mechanic (casting spells), but disables all your other gear that synergizes with that mechanic does not add positive enjoyment to the game on balance, I feel.


+1
Fall down......Go boom!
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April 14 Ultra Rares 4 months 1 day ago #33

Thanks for your feedback. I am going to keep the Necklace of the Zephyr as is -- but drop the 1/room restriction.

I get where you all are coming from with your concerns, but this Necklace (and other UR Neck items to coming in future years) is meant for a player who does not have the resources for a Relic or Legendary Neck item. I realize that the Necklace makes for a weak amount of total spell damage for a big collector, but for a person with 1-2 URs, this item will give them a good punch in offensive capabilities as well as some cool options (like attacking and then throwing Invisibility).

It is always difficult to make a mix of tokens for a wide array of players, and I appreciate your perspectives on getting that done.
Token Conjurer
Geek Dreamweaver
Nerdomancer
Author of the never-to-be-released "The Secret of Trees"
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April 14 Ultra Rares 4 months 1 day ago #34

Reposting this to this thread, in hopes that Jeff simply didn't see it in the previous thread:

Jeff, not knowing what your plan is for the transmute TE in a few years, it is tough to give feedback on the change to the Bead of Bounty. But, by lowering the BoB to +2, you may need to get creative with the other pieces of the transmute if the overall bonus will be close to the bonus of the CoA.

It also feels slightly odd to be limiting the power of the BoB based on logic that a slot expander may someday exist. The Charm Necklace was already out (2012) when CoGF came out (2013). So Charms already had gained slots when that TE was made. I don't think there is a need to drop BoB's bonus.
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April 14 Ultra Rares 4 months 1 day ago #35

Please consider making the BoB +3 chips again. If it is going to stay at+2, I'd second the request to share your plans for the future TE transmute and maybe the other tokens that will be used with the BoB to make that transmute.
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April 14 Ultra Rares 4 months 1 day ago #36

I also liked the +3 bead, but I would also like a treasure cap. I prefer less pulls, but richer boxes, to more pulls but less interesting results.

I know this is a hard balance because I assume TEs get a lot of orders. I think a multi-year alternative to the CoA would go a long way though to counteracting this, if we all end up collecting the new TEs so we can make the CoA2 when it is available.
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