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TOPIC: Final-Final Token Images (minor tweaks this round)

Final-Final Token Images (minor tweaks this round) 4 months 2 days ago #37

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OrionW wrote: Ring of Shadows is such a cool name. It would be nice to see a rogue tie-in. Maybe consider rogues sneak attack without 1 round delay from the hood of shadows and +1 AC instead of +1 AC and +1 saves.


I had the same thought when I saw the "of the Shadows" name... it reminded me of the Hood of Shadows .
Not that the ring is bad as is... but if you want to stick to thematic keywords, I agree that some Rogue-favouring text might go well here.

EDIT to Add: Participation Tokens are almost never class-specific bonuses though, are they? Probably better to not. Or perhaps change the name of the Ring to something less Shadowy.
"THERE WILL NEVER BE A TOKEN EQUAL TO A GOOD BRAIN!"- Smakdown

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Last edit: by Raven.

Final-Final Token Images (minor tweaks this round) 4 months 2 days ago #38

Endgame wrote:

ini wrote:

Maybe we can take a half-step and do +2 damage and then something like -1 from Cold?


For what it's worth, I like something like that a lot. I think that still adds the neat factor while not being 50% better than the last version from just two years ago. I say this as someone who throws a lot of ranged attacks. :)

I agree. Something along these lines feels less bad than a straight 50% damage increase. It’s still creep but not as bad.

I still Think you have room to do less damage and more other ability if you wanted to have variety. Thoughts include:

+1 damage (melee and Ranged)
And one of:
+1 ac
+1 saves
-3 damage to element like cold
+1 regen


Let's go with this idea so it is all themed together....and a template forward perhaps.

Token Conjurer
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Nerdomancer
Author of the never-to-be-released "The Secret of Trees"

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Final-Final Token Images (minor tweaks this round) 4 months 2 days ago #39

Jeff Martin wrote:

Endgame wrote:

ini wrote:

Maybe we can take a half-step and do +2 damage and then something like -1 from Cold?


For what it's worth, I like something like that a lot. I think that still adds the neat factor while not being 50% better than the last version from just two years ago. I say this as someone who throws a lot of ranged attacks. :)

I agree. Something along these lines feels less bad than a straight 50% damage increase. It’s still creep but not as bad.

I still Think you have room to do less damage and more other ability if you wanted to have variety. Thoughts include:

+1 damage (melee and Ranged)
And one of:
+1 ac
+1 saves
-3 damage to element like cold
+1 regen


Let's go with this idea so it is all themed together....and a template forward perhaps.

That’s a good compromise, and thanks for listening.

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Final-Final Token Images (minor tweaks this round) 4 months 2 days ago #40

This is more of an observation, but One-Boot Billy's Map expires on 9/1/2024.

If TD is at PAX West and if PAX West is over Labor Day weekend, the token expires on the 2nd to last day of the convention.

The Pirate's Treasure Map expires on 9/1/2023 - The probable first day of Pax West 2023, and as such can't be redeemed at PAX next year.

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Final-Final Token Images (minor tweaks this round) 4 months 2 days ago #41

Commons

Potion Warm Spirits

Chilled doesn't currently exist. What does currently exist is a whole bunch of conditions I don't see get used and I only know exist because I was looking for other things in the PHB. Fear exists, Shaken exists, Diseased, even Nauseated.

Ultrarares

Ioun Stone Kyanite Cube

Missing stars around border. ... ... ...

... ... ... There's an argument, not one I necessarily agree with, for making new tokens better than old bad tokens. Not sure what the argument is for making new tokens better than tokens of same rarity that people want to run. This is a functional reprint of Banshee. Sure, they can stack. Every time decide to increase numbers, it's not just one token. It causes future tokens to view the best at that rarity-slot as the floor for power. It combines with increasing the numbers on tokens in other slots to produce a cumulative power increase. I'd rather an IS did something different - regen was okay, can reprint Topaz Trilliant, or maybe actually start increasing mental attributes, for instance +2 INT.

Necklace of the Zephyr

So, maybe all of the earlier versions that did the same thing were actually better than it sounded due to how few rounds combat goes so how impactful it is to multicast spells in a round, especially as haven't dipped into tokens that give physical attacks as Free Actions yet to be "fair". But, if the idea is to essentially scrollicize this, that's going to be really disappointing. Not useless, but disappointing. Or, is it trying to do something between normal casting and scrollification?

Robe of Harmony

I haven't cared about how this has worked because it just seems so awkwardly trying to do something not superclear. I still don't terribly care, but it is trying really hard to do whatever it's trying to do.

Participation

Charm of Biting

Assumedly should have stars on border. This is just a Draco-Lich Claw Charm at UR. Biting sounds very Retribution damage to me. It's awkward but could be just +2 damage to melee/missile with -1 to hit to reflect bitingness.

Charm of Sacrifice

Heal ally?

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Final-Final Token Images (minor tweaks this round) 4 months 2 days ago #42

Okay, I will change the Ring of Shadows to this so it won't disappoint folks. Enjoy!

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Nerdomancer
Author of the never-to-be-released "The Secret of Trees"

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Final-Final Token Images (minor tweaks this round) 4 months 2 days ago #43

Endgame wrote:

Jeff Martin wrote:

Endgame wrote:

ini wrote:

Maybe we can take a half-step and do +2 damage and then something like -1 from Cold?


For what it's worth, I like something like that a lot. I think that still adds the neat factor while not being 50% better than the last version from just two years ago. I say this as someone who throws a lot of ranged attacks. :)

I agree. Something along these lines feels less bad than a straight 50% damage increase. It’s still creep but not as bad.

I still Think you have room to do less damage and more other ability if you wanted to have variety. Thoughts include:

+1 damage (melee and Ranged)
And one of:
+1 ac
+1 saves
-3 damage to element like cold
+1 regen


Let's go with this idea so it is all themed together....and a template forward perhaps.

That’s a good compromise, and thanks for listening.


Thanks for all the great feedback!
Token Conjurer
Geek Dreamweaver
Nerdomancer
Author of the never-to-be-released "The Secret of Trees"

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Final-Final Token Images (minor tweaks this round) 4 months 2 days ago #44

Chris Wiemer wrote: This is more of an observation, but One-Boot Billy's Map expires on 9/1/2024.

If TD is at PAX West and if PAX West is over Labor Day weekend, the token expires on the 2nd to last day of the convention.

The Pirate's Treasure Map expires on 9/1/2023 - The probable first day of Pax West 2023, and as such can't be redeemed at PAX next year.


October 1st here we come! Thanks.
Token Conjurer
Geek Dreamweaver
Nerdomancer
Author of the never-to-be-released "The Secret of Trees"

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Final-Final Token Images (minor tweaks this round) 4 months 2 days ago #45

Mike Steele wrote: Jeff, there's still time to do a Grave Hunter Set bonus. Just make them a set, and figure out a coaching room and DM friendly set bonus later. :)


Totally agree - I would go with “Rub some dirt on it” heal an ally 5 hit points 1/game.

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Final-Final Token Images (minor tweaks this round) 4 months 2 days ago #46

Jeff Martin wrote: Okay, I will change the Ring of Shadows to this so it won't disappoint folks. Enjoy!


Love it! Leaves Ring of Shadows for something dark and devious in the future.

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Final-Final Token Images (minor tweaks this round) 4 months 2 days ago #47

Jeff Martin wrote:

ini wrote: Updated thoughts:

- Robe of Harmony is still super misguided. I don't want to restart the dumpster fire of the other thread, but please consider making it only healing or adding wizards. It's super janky as is.

All in all, the set looks pretty cool. :) I think there are a few really important things to address though.


Thank you for your input. The Robe is meant to give armored spellcasters the choice of giving up lots of armor to be better at their jobs. The Wizard does not have as much skin in the game as the other better armored casters so this is not really a choice for them. It is too powerful to give to Wizards without a major AC concession. That's my thoughts anyway...wrong as they may be,


The reason they don't have as much skin in the game is that they have only ever gotten 15 torso items printed for them, only 4 of which are UR+, while clerics and druids have 181 and 117 options respectively.

Wizards won't ever get the chance to make meaningful build choices if they aren't given choices to make to begin with- and it feels like magic robes are a great place to do this (for what it's worth, with all 15 of their current options they would still be giving up AC to wear these robes).

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Final-Final Token Images (minor tweaks this round) 4 months 2 days ago #48

Jeff Martin wrote:
Thank you for your input. The Robe is meant to give armored spellcasters the choice of giving up lots of armor to be better at their jobs. The Wizard does not have as much skin in the game as the other better armored casters so this is not really a choice for them. It is too powerful to give to Wizards without a major AC concession. That's my thoughts anyway...wrong as they may be,


I totally get where you're coming from and I think it's a cool idea! I'm being the squeaky wheel here on behalf of a number of people - it's caused a lot of chatter and I apologize for being a pain. :)

Are there plans to create other robes in the future? As a last attempt to clarity why this feels so off and to summarize the main issues people have with it:
[1] The only reason there isn't a tradeoff for wizards is because there have been no viable robes printed for wizards in a long time. If you look back far enough, there's exactly one - Moonhide and it's upgrades.
[2] The assertion is that wizards are excluded is because they aren't giving anything up. If we had the option to give something up, there would be cool tradeoffs to make and I'd be interested in having those choices. However, there are none today. This feels really bad for the one dnd class known for wearing robes, especially in light of not seeing anything since 2017. As a concrete example, I've been playing TD for awhile, but never ran with anything more than a 10pack at Gencon. I barely knew URs existed and just liked being able to toss some spells and have a really cool experience. In the last couple years, I got more into building a character and doing the harder difficulties. For me to have a UR robe, I'd have to go to the secondary market and spend somewhere between $140-$300 for Moonhide or Starhide. I'm sure I'm not the only person in this situation. Otherwise, the rare robes in the slot are all pretty similar. For people playing on 10 packs and doing normal, it doesn't really matter that much to the experience. For playing at higher difficulties, there's no choice.
[3] I think folks are really mis-evaluating the value of that AC in slot. +4 focus is relic+ in power. I don't think the lack of it applying to 0th level spells really offsets it. People have wildly different experiences in runs, but I've seen plenty where people don't use their 0th level stuff at all anyways.

Either way, I hope you take what I'm saying here under consideration and I'm glad that there is this opportunity to discuss it. :)

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