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TOPIC: Final Ultra Rare Images! (probably)

Final Ultra Rare Images! (probably) 3 months 4 weeks ago #37

  • bpsymington
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I will definitely pick up the Bead of Bounty, the Greaves of Absorption, and the Ioun Stone. I didn't get the previous shirts, so the Shirt of the Shrewd would not be the best choice.

I'll keep my Blessed Tempest Gloves, but I would be interested in Gloves of Skillful Focus! :laugh:

The Bead of Whispers would be an option if I could afford to make the legendary bead, so I'll just stick with my Bead of the Lucky Traveller.

I would be all over the book of useful scrolls if it were once per room instead of once per game, but I guess they think that would be too powerful? It would be great for scroll collectors! (Oh, a basilisk? BAM - instant Scroll of Gaze Relection!).
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Final Ultra Rare Images! (probably) 3 months 4 weeks ago #38

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The Arcane Charm would be awesome, but what would it replace?
Not Charm of Brooching
Not Charm of Avarice
Not Charm of Awakened Synergy
Maybe Charm of the Wind? Trade +2 shock for +2 generic?
Maybe Charm of Glory? But which Ring could I afford to lose?
Not Ring of Greater Focus.
Probably not Ring of Supreme Elemental Command
Maybe Ring of Spell Storing? I don't know - I love triple casting Fireball/Lightning Storm.
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Final Ultra Rare Images! (probably) 3 months 4 weeks ago #39

  • NightGod
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bpsymington wrote: The Arcane Charm would be awesome, but what would it replace?
Not Charm of Brooching
Not Charm of Avarice
Not Charm of Awakened Synergy
Maybe Charm of the Wind? Trade +2 shock for +2 generic?
Maybe Charm of Glory? But which Ring could I afford to lose?
Not Ring of Greater Focus.
Probably not Ring of Supreme Elemental Command
Maybe Ring of Spell Storing? I don't know - I love triple casting Fireball/Lightning Storm.

I look at it more as "which slot can I put something else in and still get an Arcane set bonus?"

(The answer is waist for Orion's-I've actually been running Orion's for the last season+ of vTD but it will be pretty nice to get that free 0-2nd level slot back)
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Final Ultra Rare Images! (probably) 3 months 4 weeks ago #40

NightGod wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Raven wrote:

Endgame wrote: Here is a different spin on the gloves, as we really haven’t explored much design space at UR+ regarding skill checks.

Gloves of skillful Focus

+2 Focus
+3 bonus to successful skill checks

This gives wizards that want to lean into skill checks a +2 damage bonus over blessed tempest (assuming they pass the check). If they don’t want to skill check, they still get +2 or can use blessed tempest.

100% poly Druids may prefer +str gauntlets, but jack of all trades Druids might like the boost that passing skill checks involves.

Clerics just get better Healing gloves than the rare gloves of Healing / gloves of Focus.

If we went this route, you could open up a whole new build style: Skill Check focused. Any where we have a <item> of Focus, you could have a a <item> of skillful Focus that has less base damage and healing but adds extra value to a passed skill check.

Edit:
Thinking this over as I cross posted a little to the transmute thread, +2 Focus and +3 skill check might actually be too much. It’s fine for a one off, but if we made 10 of these items (ring, bead, crown, charm, ioun, etc) having +30 to the skill check would be a lot. Maybe gloves of skillful Focus should be +2 Focus, +2 to successful skill check.


LOVE this idea, and the way it could really help move us away from cookie-cutter “best builds”.

Similar to the way Jeff said he’d like to reward the Melee sliders who can hit a 20, this would allow Casters to really shine passing their skill tests.

This gives a lot of room for interesting token designs in the future, too!


I don't think the new tokens would impact this. It would be easy to say that this requires a successful skill test and not an autopass skill test.

Agreed, I think "autopass" and "bonus on pass" should be mutually exclusive. I'd still use both situationally and I like tokens that give me tactical options.


This would be a GREAT way to encourage two styles of build: Autopass vs. Time & Skill. Both would have merits, and both would have fans. Please do this!
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Final Ultra Rare Images! (probably) 3 months 4 weeks ago #41

Dergidan wrote:

NightGod wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Raven wrote:

Endgame wrote: Here is a different spin on the gloves, as we really haven’t explored much design space at UR+ regarding skill checks.

Gloves of skillful Focus

+2 Focus
+3 bonus to successful skill checks

This gives wizards that want to lean into skill checks a +2 damage bonus over blessed tempest (assuming they pass the check). If they don’t want to skill check, they still get +2 or can use blessed tempest.

100% poly Druids may prefer +str gauntlets, but jack of all trades Druids might like the boost that passing skill checks involves.

Clerics just get better Healing gloves than the rare gloves of Healing / gloves of Focus.

If we went this route, you could open up a whole new build style: Skill Check focused. Any where we have a <item> of Focus, you could have a a <item> of skillful Focus that has less base damage and healing but adds extra value to a passed skill check.

Edit:
Thinking this over as I cross posted a little to the transmute thread, +2 Focus and +3 skill check might actually be too much. It’s fine for a one off, but if we made 10 of these items (ring, bead, crown, charm, ioun, etc) having +30 to the skill check would be a lot. Maybe gloves of skillful Focus should be +2 Focus, +2 to successful skill check.


LOVE this idea, and the way it could really help move us away from cookie-cutter “best builds”.

Similar to the way Jeff said he’d like to reward the Melee sliders who can hit a 20, this would allow Casters to really shine passing their skill tests.

This gives a lot of room for interesting token designs in the future, too!


I don't think the new tokens would impact this. It would be easy to say that this requires a successful skill test and not an autopass skill test.

Agreed, I think "autopass" and "bonus on pass" should be mutually exclusive. I'd still use both situationally and I like tokens that give me tactical options.


This would be a GREAT way to encourage two styles of build: Autopass vs. Time & Skill. Both would have merits, and both would have fans. Please do this!


Just to clarify, I think that Autopass would grant whatever bonus a successful skill check would normally provide on the character card - otherwise you wouldn't need an autopass, you'd just skip the skill test. But, tokens could be designed to give additional bonuses for passed skill checks that wouldn't be granted by an autopass. For instance, the Druid's Sacred Vestments say that "Healing Spells you cast heal +2 HP if Skill Test is passed". The TokenDB could be modified to say that an Autopass doesn't count as a passed Skill Test for that token. Does that seem to work? That would have two different build styles, people that equip autopass tokens might not equip tokens like Druid's Sacred Vestments.
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Final Ultra Rare Images! (probably) 3 months 4 weeks ago #42

Dergidan wrote: This would be a GREAT way to encourage two styles of build: Autopass vs. Time & Skill. Both would have merits, and both would have fans. Please do this!

Auto pass the basic 3 point skill check would absolutely be great for a year when there isn’t otherwise a Ranged or spell damage increase for the “safe / fast” way of playing.

This year, if we ignore the robe of skill, a safe / fast player just getting into URs can increase their spell damage +7 at UR ( shirt, ioun, charm), and another +2 from a rare.

Even the highest damage, no budget, max damage Wizard build gets a bump of +6 damage this year.

Edit - that also means Benrows throwing Monk passes melee Monk for highest damage, presuming both attacks hit.
Last edit: by Endgame.
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Final Ultra Rare Images! (probably) 3 months 4 weeks ago #43

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Endgame wrote:

Dergidan wrote: This would be a GREAT way to encourage two styles of build: Autopass vs. Time & Skill. Both would have merits, and both would have fans. Please do this!

Auto pass the basic 3 point skill check would absolutely be great for a year when there isn’t otherwise a Ranged or spell damage increase for the “safe / fast” way of playing.

This year, if we ignore the robe of skill, a safe / fast player just getting into URs can increase their spell damage +7 at UR ( shirt, ioun, charm), and another +2 from a rare.

Even the highest damage, no budget, max damage Wizard build gets a bump of +6 damage this year.

Except 3 of that was always available. That's like saying "Rogues get a three treasure bump this year" because they can autopass a box open.
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Final Ultra Rare Images! (probably) 3 months 4 weeks ago #44

NightGod wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Dergidan wrote: This would be a GREAT way to encourage two styles of build: Autopass vs. Time & Skill. Both would have merits, and both would have fans. Please do this!

Auto pass the basic 3 point skill check would absolutely be great for a year when there isn’t otherwise a Ranged or spell damage increase for the “safe / fast” way of playing.

This year, if we ignore the robe of skill, a safe / fast player just getting into URs can increase their spell damage +7 at UR ( shirt, ioun, charm), and another +2 from a rare.

Even the highest damage, no budget, max damage Wizard build gets a bump of +6 damage this year.

Except 3 of that was always available. That's like saying "Rogues get a three treasure bump this year" because they can autopass a box open.

I wasn’t counting the 3 damage from auto pass for that reason. If you want to count that, the damage increase is +9 at the very top end.

Take this wizard build:
tdcharactercreator.com/#/character/edit/8d060c12-6d51-4746-b3e8-8a6dabe85ec2

Replace sonic splendor with Ella’s (+1)
Replace shirt of Focus with new shirt (+1)
Replace lucky charm with arcane charm (+2)
Replace elfstone with new ioun (+2)

Optional:
Replace lucky traveler with legendary bead (+3 if you always skipped skill test in the past)
Last edit: by Endgame.
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Final Ultra Rare Images! (probably) 3 months 4 weeks ago #45

Ian Lee wrote: Gloves of Extra Focus or Gloves of Superior Focus. Greater continues the confusion with inconsistent naming conventions and will become more confusing when they get reprinted and become part of transmute path.

They also should say +2 Focus now that Focus is getting defined and is used on two other tokens in the same set, including another UR.


Good catch. I will change the Shirt back to the list so it is more clear to newer folks.
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Final Ultra Rare Images! (probably) 3 months 4 weeks ago #46

NightGod wrote:
I know there was talk of there one day being a "Tome" slot. Should it be "Tome of Spells" to reduce confusion when/if that day arrives?

I think Arcane Charm could (and should) include polymorph damage without becoming overpowered.


Book - You are probably right...I will change the Book to Tome so we are covered just in case.

Arcane Charm - I want it to be less powerful than a "Focus" item so I left off the Poly damage
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Final Ultra Rare Images! (probably) 3 months 4 weeks ago #47

Dr. Uid wrote:

Acherin's ring is better, but still feels unfortunately quite underwhelming. Ring slot is incredibly contested, and has a lot of hard choices. I guess it could allow one to tank saves and just make the most important one. This feels like a relic figurine rather than a ring to me. Any chance it could move to Bead, Charm, or Ioun Stone? Or maybe save this for a relic after reprinting Tortoise, Dragon, and Owl? This is meant more for newer players, as not every UR needs to worry about BiS.

Boots wording should be consistent. The "the" is absent from UR, present on transmutes. Fixed.

Greaves I'd like to see come out, and become some sort of a transmute, but that's almost certainly not going to happen.
We can't go back and announce old tokens are now part of a transmute. I have been denounced as a butthead for wanting to do so in the past. We cannot change that the Greaves -- no matter how many folks have extra Greaves laying around.

Would the robe be too good as +2 focus? It could then go on the party card. Yes, if we leave the Wizards on there.

Thanks for the feedback!
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Final Ultra Rare Images! (probably) 3 months 4 weeks ago #48

macxdmg wrote: Is there a reason the robes limit to 1&2, and not just “spells gain their level in damage” and 0 get, well nothing, and 3rd get three? Is it to open up the potential of a relic, because right now this potentially replaces 5/7/9 dex, and ac everywhere (6-11 perks aside). It seems like a question in UR swapping, maybe a question in relic swapping (not likely). 3 wouldn’t change the equation unless there is interest in keeping relic space open, or card redesign space open I guess?

“Tome slot” being teased, and “card redesign” the idea that I can know what power UC scrolls as instant action 1/game will be competitive or not is an impossibility. It seems weak though. 1/room or including rare once per game (or any level scroll, transmuted scrolls?) would totally make it competitive even without any transmutes scrolls yet.

What others have said about the gloves of focus, renamed. The gloves of the wind are a question for wizards with these. I suppose that isn’t a bad thing.

Thanks again for taking the time to do this process, and including us in it!


The Robes originally had something like that, but we changed it to be easier for folks to understand and program into various pieces of software.
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