TOPIC: 2023 Transmuted Beta Token Images

Legendary gloves giving 3x crit damage seems like a lot. What if that part was 1/combat?

Wade Schwendemann (Dr. Uid) wrote: Upon review, is the plan for the greaves to be a UR TBO token, or a "standard" UR token? I'm not clear.

UR Greaves will normal URs.

Dergidan wrote:

Jeff Martin wrote:

Dergidan wrote: Is there any chance of adding a completion token or monster trophy "4C" transmute (a-la Bead of the Lucky Traveler, Ring of Herosim, Icecrag Earcuff, etc)?

Sorry, but I think COVID has screwed up those plans. Things have been too screwy the past few years to do something like this. I don't want the non-VTD players to be left out. We can do one starting in 2022 since we will be at Gen Con this year.

I'd be happy to see them return starting in 2022.

To keep us from having a glut of Fleece, and to satisfy the VTD folks, could you consider an alternate recipe using VTD bits? Then VTD players could get the transmute sooner, but non VTD players would know about it and could collect for it.

I agree that it's important not to leave out the non-VTD players. Well said.

Thanks Jeff, for reading and considering all our feedback. As always we appreciate being included in this process. It's part of the fun of True Dungeon!

We will figure something out! Thanks for your patience until we do. We will announce it before token design is done.

Jeff Martin wrote:

Dergidan wrote:

Jeff Martin wrote:

Dergidan wrote: Is there any chance of adding a completion token or monster trophy "4C" transmute (a-la Bead of the Lucky Traveler, Ring of Herosim, Icecrag Earcuff, etc)?

Sorry, but I think COVID has screwed up those plans. Things have been too screwy the past few years to do something like this. I don't want the non-VTD players to be left out. We can do one starting in 2022 since we will be at Gen Con this year.

I'd be happy to see them return starting in 2022.

To keep us from having a glut of Fleece, and to satisfy the VTD folks, could you consider an alternate recipe using VTD bits? Then VTD players could get the transmute sooner, but non VTD players would know about it and could collect for it.

I agree that it's important not to leave out the non-VTD players. Well said.

Thanks Jeff, for reading and considering all our feedback. As always we appreciate being included in this process. It's part of the fun of True Dungeon!

We will figure something out! Thanks for your patience until we do. We will announce it before token design is done.

Maybe Monster Trophy Tokens could be an alternate recipe for the Map.

Note that the only two tokens that are technically Combo-4C use three years of MB, then two years of MB. Then, next MB token after that (technically a relic) was also two years of MB.

Can have a two-year MB token that does something ridiculously bad/esoteric, even less useful than Dragon Tooth Amulet (and, one hopes, far less of a mess ruleswise).

Maybe the 4C token using VTD monster bits is a surgical mask.

Greaves of Absorption
I think something this is we've been expecting after the cycle of Treasure Box greaves was finished, I'll just echo the previous comments that it would be really nice to have a transmute option to make this using the greaves from previous years - especially since this token will directly replace them in all builds.

Alternate suggestion - what if the 2023 treasure had a singular transmute ingredient in it which could be turned in with a complete set of rare greaves to get the new UR greaves?

Acherin's Deadly Gloves & Linda's Boots
The UR and Relic seem to be about the right power level for those rarities, but the Legendary seems too powerful to me - even as a Legendary. There are already semi-regular suggestions that Assassin's Crossbow is overpowered, and these tokens would allow every class access to the same effect and at a significantly higher damage level (albeit at a slightly smaller crit range). I would suggest making the x3 damage ability only trigger on a natural 20.
In non-magic builds the suggested legendary tokens will be more powerful than Boots of the Four Winds, one of the most powerful tokens in existence - and are in a different slot as well which will let people use both. I'd be tempted to suggest not only making the ability only trigger on a natural 20, but also moving these to the feet slot - it will give a viable alternative to Bot4W and allow newer players a chance to get a BiS feet slot item which is not an OOP Eldritch recipe.

The Ioun stones were interesting as a possible build for Wizards, perhaps it would be possible to keep just one of them or add it in a future year instead?

I'd love to see the UR greaves be a hybrid of thevTBO token transmute and the "4C" token. Whomever had that idea first, I think it checks a lot of boxes.

Or something like a Reaver, using completion tokens, etc.

Iross wrote: Greaves of Absorption
I think something this is we've been expecting after the cycle of Treasure Box greaves was finished, I'll just echo the previous comments that it would be really nice to have a transmute option to make this using the greaves from previous years - especially since this token will directly replace them in all builds.

Alternate suggestion - what if the 2023 treasure had a singular transmute ingredient in it which could be turned in with a complete set of rare greaves to get the new UR greaves?

Acherin's Deadly Gloves & Linda's Boots
The UR and Relic seem to be about the right power level for those rarities, but the Legendary seems too powerful to me - even as a Legendary. There are already semi-regular suggestions that Assassin's Crossbow is overpowered, and these tokens would allow every class access to the same effect and at a significantly higher damage level (albeit at a slightly smaller crit range). I would suggest making the x3 damage ability only trigger on a natural 20.
In non-magic builds the suggested legendary tokens will be more powerful than Boots of the Four Winds, one of the most powerful tokens in existence - and are in a different slot as well which will let people use both. I'd be tempted to suggest not only making the ability only trigger on a natural 20, but also moving these to the feet slot - it will give a viable alternative to Bot4W and allow newer players a chance to get a BiS feet slot item which is not an OOP Eldritch recipe.

The Ioun stones were interesting as a possible build for Wizards, perhaps it would be possible to keep just one of them or add it in a future year instead?

If the legendary only does 3x crits on a 20 then it’s not very good considering how tiny they make the 20. Maybe just don’t do a melee version so you keep out the two puck classes and also let’s face it, it’s much easier to get melee to hit and damage bonus then range since strength does double duty on to hit and damage. A range build has to balance to hit and damage, that is why the crossbow while great isn’t broken.

Sounds good turn the melee one into a +healing one!

Wayne Rhodes wrote: If the legendary only does 3x crits on a 20 then it’s not very good considering how tiny they make the 20. Maybe just don’t do a melee version so you keep out the two puck classes and also let’s face it, it’s much easier to get melee to hit and damage bonus then range since strength does double duty on to hit and damage. A range build has to balance to hit and damage, that is why the crossbow while great isn’t broken.

This used to be the case, but isn't anymore.

Due to multiple tokens releasing recently, ranged is able to consolidate more effect into fewer tokens. For example, charms that are +2 damage vs +2 str, robes that are +9 dex, and a belt that is +2 / +3.

Take a look at this monk - +22 hit, +48 damage throwing Asher's while having no gloves equipped (to leave room for the legendary):
tdcharactercreator.com/#/character/edit/716ec3b3-4660-43fc-993f-0910f86bbe58

Or this ranger - +19 hit and +51 damage while having no gloves equipped (to leave room for the legendary):
tdcharactercreator.com/#/character/edit/4e124147-7d10-4099-912f-4ada4a3682d3

NOTE - on that ranger build, you can drop 2 damage and add 12 dex by replacing the common armor with Sunhide robe and replacing the goggles of striking with lenses of the fae.

Or this rogue - +17 hit and +41 sneak damage with assassin's crossbow.
tdcharactercreator.com/#/character/edit/b1cb2f89-4c8c-409f-a8b3-b7249288fc70

Note that you can drop ranged sneak damage to +40 to swap in +9 dex as well to push that to hit to +21, and you can wiggle it around a little more if 21 isn't high enough for you.

This concentration of damage and concentration of dex on single tokens allows the "max damage" ranged builds to have considerably better Saves & hp than comparable max damage melee builds.

While the sample builds are "no cost limit" you can also see how the base power for ranged gear isn't tied to the legendaries as much as melee is either. Dead Shot Belt, Ring of the Drake and Yeti, charms of targeting and wind, lenses of hunting, etc allow much of the power to be at UR and under.

Wayne Rhodes wrote:
If the legendary only does 3x crits on a 20 then it’s not very good considering how tiny they make the 20. Maybe just don’t do a melee version so you keep out the two puck classes and also let’s face it, it’s much easier to get melee to hit and damage bonus then range since strength does double duty on to hit and damage. A range build has to balance to hit and damage, that is why the crossbow while great isn’t broken.

In addition to the x3 damage, the suggested Legendary also grants +6 damage and an expanded crit range, which is why I am concerned that it's much too powerful. Even if the x3 on crit were removed entirely, it'd still be a stronger token than Bot4W by virtue of the damage boost and expanded crit range alone if a build is only focusing on a single damage type.

This is the main reason I'm suggesting that the x3 should only trigger on a natural 20 - it's still at legendary level from the other effects without the x3 damage, but keeping it on a natural 20 still leaves an exciting ability on the token.

On a related note, if an Assassin's Crossbow build equips these gloves, would they get x5 damage (!) on a 19-20? x2 crit effects can be stacked on the crossbow, so I assume x3 effects work in the same way, which would deal a massive amount of damage.