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TOPIC: 2023 Transmuted Beta Token Images

2023 Transmuted Beta Token Images 1 year 10 months ago #37

Arnold wrote: It looks like One-Boot Billy's Map uses the same art as 2022 Pirate's Treasure Map.

Maybe a different image would be appropriate?


Maybe they both had copies of the same map?

Druids getting polymorph love seems fine to me.
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2023 Transmuted Beta Token Images 1 year 10 months ago #38

Fiddy wrote:

Dave wrote: The Ioun Stone and Greaves feel like something that would be nice to have, but not necessary unless I want to start soloing dungeons. Seriously, I slap on Shadowskin and these greaves, throw in my Absorb ability, and why do I need a paladin? I wear the Ioun Stones and why do I need a cleric? It feels like we're upsetting the dynamic of me being a glass cannon that can deal significant damage, but needs the support of the party to survive. Not so much anymore. Just my opinion.


Yep, these should be marked as "All except Wizard".


Shrug.

I guess I'll just save my $2000 worth of transmute ingredients and buy some potions of healing.

Let's try not to lose perspective here.

The greaves provide you the benefit of ~5-6 rare potions a game.

The UR / Relic / Legendary Iouns provide you with the benefit of an uncommon or rare healing potion each for each of 6 rooms, at the cost of 3 Ioun slots.
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2023 Transmuted Beta Token Images 1 year 10 months ago #39

Wade Schwendemann (Dr. Uid) wrote: Druids getting polymorph love seems fine to me.


That was exactly my first thought.

My second was that im bringing this up every time the druids talk about their class legendary. :)
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Last edit: by Lequinian.
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2023 Transmuted Beta Token Images 1 year 10 months ago #40

Matthew Hayward wrote: Shrug.

I guess I'll just save my $2000 worth of transmute ingredients and buy some potions of healing.

Let's try not to lose perspective here.

The greaves provide you the benefit of ~5-6 rare potions a game.

The UR / Relic / Legendary Iouns provide you with the benefit of an uncommon or rare healing potion each for each of 6 rooms, at the cost of 3 Ioun slots.


1. Jeff already said these were going to be significantly less expensive than other legendries to build. The build cost should not be $2,000.00.

2. There is a significant difference between out of combat healing via potions, and healing/damage reduction which does not require an action. By your logic, a $2,000 legendary token should be able to block $2,000 worth of healing potions in damage, or roughly 769 damage by Trent's prices. Equating in-combat damage blocking to out of combat potion healing isn't an appropriate comparison.

I see your point on the IS (since some of that may be out of combat healing), but the Greaves are a different animal.
Last edit: by Daniel White.
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2023 Transmuted Beta Token Images 1 year 10 months ago #41

Daniel White wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: Shrug.

I guess I'll just save my $2000 worth of transmute ingredients and buy some potions of healing.

Let's try not to lose perspective here.

The greaves provide you the benefit of ~5-6 rare potions a game.

The UR / Relic / Legendary Iouns provide you with the benefit of an uncommon or rare healing potion each for each of 6 rooms, at the cost of 3 Ioun slots.


1. Jeff already said these were going to be significantly less expensive than other legendries to build. The build cost should not be $2,000.00.



I was saying the total cost of:

1x Legendary Greaves
1x Legendary Ioun
1x Relic Ioun
1x UR Ioun

Would be ~$2000. Do you disagree with that?


2. There is a significant difference between out of combat healing via potions, and healing/damage reduction which does not require an action. By your logic, a $2,000 legendary token should be able to block $2,000 worth of healing potions in damage, or roughly 769 damage by Trent's prices. Equating in-combat damage blocking to out of combat potion healing isn't an appropriate comparison.

I see your point on the IS (since some of that may be out of combat healing), but the Greaves are a different animal.


I think you here are talking about only the greaves, and I'm talking about the cumulative effect of the regenerating Iouns and greaves combined, and the implication that therefore Wizards should be removed from the greaves. I'm not even sure if we disagree.

In any case, it is not my logic that a legendary tokens should be worth the value of consumables that it equates to in game effect.

My logic is that removing only Wizards from the greaves for the purposes of game balance does not obtain any meaningful game balance result at the spending-thousands-on-tokens tier, and is thus pointless.
Last edit: by Matthew Hayward.
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2023 Transmuted Beta Token Images 1 year 10 months ago #42

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Adam Guay wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

EvilJohn wrote: I might have missed why the shirt dosen't give a polymorph bonus. Was that for a reason? Makin' all of the Druids a bit sad.


Focus is +2 to healing, damage spells, and polymorph. I'm pretty sure. I think this may be the first time Focus has been used as a keyword, and focus tokens in the past have been a bit inconsistent.


I hope focus in this aspect does not include polymorph damage....the druid will be double dipping on the str bonus and the focus bonus for poly build.


Pretty sure poly builds could use the boost, who actually runs one?
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2023 Transmuted Beta Token Images 1 year 10 months ago #43

In my experience, polydruid doesn't need anything. If it wants something, that something is to hit. Polydruid builds tend to have awful ACs, though I should see what a good AC polydruid build would look like before saying they are forced to have bad ACs.

However, druid spellcaster builds lack number of spells in 5+ combat dungeons, can't multitarget like wizzes can (by itself not a problem as druids do things wizzes can't), lack useful options outside of healing or damage. May question why last is a problem when healing/damage is what you want out of spells and is what defines the druid, but VTD has greatly increased number of runs for some of us and it gets repetitive to not have different things to do. Wizzes get all sorts of additional options. Druids got 1st level spell Free Action casting, but ...

... My view is that if you have the tokens, there's no reason to run pure spellcaster build. It's easy to get high offense in both melee and spell with polydruid when money is no hurdle.
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2023 Transmuted Beta Token Images 1 year 10 months ago #44

Dergidan wrote: Is there any chance of adding a completion token or monster trophy "4C" transmute (a-la Bead of the Lucky Traveler, Ring of Herosim, Icecrag Earcuff, etc)?


Agreed, I also brought this up in the 4C thread that Druegar started last year, in case it is not considered part of the main set and shown on an different image like the completion tokens, but don't want to forget about it.

For the Shirt, my thinking is either they should all be called Arcanum X or none of them, just trying to prevent confusion with the first one as it leads into the Ring of all circles and whatever else is to come. I think it should have a relic star as this will be the first arcanum relic, and the ring will be the first grand arcanum.

I also like Focus being a keyword now, and see no issue with a little more polydamage. It would be nice to have this standardized, and even errata some of the older focus tokens to match the standard.

I think a new map image would be cool for collecting purposes, and if not then maybe a slightly more damaged version of the same, now that it has gotten into the hands (or boot) of Billy?

Phil
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2023 Transmuted Beta Token Images 1 year 10 months ago #45

Adam Guay wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

EvilJohn wrote: I might have missed why the shirt dosen't give a polymorph bonus. Was that for a reason? Makin' all of the Druids a bit sad.


Focus is +2 to healing, damage spells, and polymorph. I'm pretty sure. I think this may be the first time Focus has been used as a keyword, and focus tokens in the past have been a bit inconsistent.


I hope focus in this aspect does not include polymorph damage....the druid will be double dipping on the str bonus and the focus bonus for poly build.


So the fighter with Arcanum Shirt throwing a spear should get the dex for the attack at the str for the damage? and the wizard with the attack spell should get the dex to the attack and the focus to the damage? but the poly druid shouldn't get both the str and the focus to their attack? Yes, I know they get double the bonus to damage. But isn't polymorph all about that? The druid turns into a mightier creature than a lowly druid and can be affective in combat. They still have to hit (unlike casting most spells). Does am item which helps in many ways help a hybrid character more than a character based on a single stat??? Yes. Likewise items which only help in a single stat will help particular characters more than others.
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2023 Transmuted Beta Token Images 1 year 10 months ago #46

Dergidan wrote: Is there any chance of adding a completion token or monster trophy "4C" transmute (a-la Bead of the Lucky Traveler, Ring of Herosim, Icecrag Earcuff, etc)?


Sorry, but I think COVID has screwed up those plans. Things have been too screwy the past few years to do something like this. I don't want the non-VTD players to be left out. We can do one starting in 2022 since we will be at Gen Con this year.
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2023 Transmuted Beta Token Images 1 year 10 months ago #47

Jeff Martin wrote:

Dergidan wrote: Is there any chance of adding a completion token or monster trophy "4C" transmute (a-la Bead of the Lucky Traveler, Ring of Herosim, Icecrag Earcuff, etc)?


Sorry, but I think COVID has screwed up those plans. Things have been too screwy the past few years to do something like this. I don't want the non-VTD players to be left out. We can do one starting in 2022 since we will be at Gen Con this year.


Jeff, sorry to hear that. So, just to clarify, the next 4C token won't include any monster ingredient tokens prior to 2022? Just checking before transmuting a bunch of Golden Fleece.
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2023 Transmuted Beta Token Images 1 year 10 months ago #48

I guess it's argumentative when it's not that important, but there should be tons of 2020 and 2021 MB that haven't been Fleeced yet that could produce lots of extra transmutes for people who don't know of a source for the components.
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