TOPIC: 2023 Ultra Rare Beta Token Images

jpotter wrote: I'd like to post this here as well. In order to close the gap between newer and older players, I'd propose that the new TEs have diminishing returns for people with the older items. This means older players still get something from them, but newer players get more:


2023 Bead of Riches
If CoA/RoR equipped: +1 treasure
If no CoA/RoR equipped: +3 treasure

2025
Ioun Stone of Good Fortune:
If CoA/CoGF equipped: +1 treasure
If not, CoGF effect (works with the CoGF as well)

2027
AoTF reprint


NEW COA 2.0 (using the Bead of Riches, Ioun stone of good fortune, aotf):

If CoA/allthecrap equipped: + 4 treasure
If no CoA equipped: +13 treasure

I know I wouldn't be thrilled to use the AoTF we held onto for 10+ years and two more TE URs purchased plus whatever the Legendary transmute cost is to get a total of +4 Treasure Chips over the next 6 years.

Making a case of a Charm of good fortune reprint again.

A reprint of Cogf would

Lets new people get in on existing synergy runs easier.

Stalls treasure gap creep for a few years.

If a COGF reprint were eligible for the COA recipie it would let people who have joined over VTD fully catch up now rather then having to wait 5 more years.

It would give beads a few more years to find their identity before 2 of 3 were on long term lockdown.

This would probably drive more sales. I can only speak for myself but I would buy a few to save (like I would with any new TE) and a few more to complete another COA.

Nothing says we couldn't either restrict a reprinted TE to count for less (or even no) points toward a COA since the COA recipie only mentioned the original. Even if a reprint charm counted for less points it might even free up a few more original charms for trade.

Nothing says it couldn't be a ROR reprint, that's even older and most of the above still applies.

In summary we are at a unique point in time after the end of the nugget cycle. If a TE reprint were ever to happen now would be the time. If there was ever a TE to reprint CoGF would be it.

We can all feel the treasure pool getting diluted more and more year after year. We all know it's not sustainable but that TEs drive sales. And after this TE we are basically back on the path towards the next COA. We cant solve that problem today but we can push that problem out by two more years and finally give people a chance to catch up without hurting anyones investment or sales.

There will always be time to print another new TE, this is quite probably the last chance we will ever have to step back for a moment, follow our better nature and let people catch up like we have been saying is important for years. Anyway that's all I got, probably wont donny good but worth saying none the less.

Wade Schwendemann (Dr. Uid) wrote:

balthasar wrote:

Wade Schwendemann (Dr. Uid) wrote: There are definitely 3 reprints.

DDD, EoO, FoP Phoenix.

My bad, I was missing the FoP. I still believe we can try to make a better UR than the Gloves. If we must have them, maybe add a To Hit bonus?

The gloves seem to have advocates on both sides (too weak, too strong).

When that happens, we might be pretty close honestly.

I'm not sure it should be ranged instead of missiles

Personally if did 3x damage on a crit then it’s a really good pairing with any crit expander, Thor’s hammer, amulet of aiming, rogue legendary and relic.

As is with only bonus on a nat 20 it’s just bad the vast amount of the time.

I say just make it say 3x damage on crits, and then players need to use another token to expand the crit range to make it good.

Wayne Rhodes wrote:

Wade Schwendemann (Dr. Uid) wrote:

balthasar wrote:

Wade Schwendemann (Dr. Uid) wrote: There are definitely 3 reprints.

DDD, EoO, FoP Phoenix.

My bad, I was missing the FoP. I still believe we can try to make a better UR than the Gloves. If we must have them, maybe add a To Hit bonus?

The gloves seem to have advocates on both sides (too weak, too strong).

When that happens, we might be pretty close honestly.

I'm not sure it should be ranged instead of missiles

Personally if did 3x damage on a crit then it’s a really good pairing with any crit expander, Thor’s hammer, amulet of aiming, rogue legendary and relic.

As is with only bonus on a nat 20 it’s just bad the vast amount of the time.

I say just make it say 3x damage on crits, and then players need to use another token to expand the crit range to make it good.

I can support making them just x3 all crits. Trading off +4 str gloves makes for some diversity.

Picc wrote: Making a case of a Charm of good fortune reprint again.

A reprint of Cogf would

Lets new people get in on existing synergy runs easier.

Stalls treasure gap creep for a few years.

If a COGF reprint were eligible for the COA recipie it would let people who have joined over VTD fully catch up now rather then having to wait 5 more years.

It would give beads a few more years to find their identity before 2 of 3 were on long term lockdown.

This would probably drive more sales. I can only speak for myself but I would buy a few to save (like I would with any new TE) and a few more to complete another COA.

Nothing says we couldn't either restrict a reprinted TE to count for less (or even no) points toward a COA since the COA recipie only mentioned the original. Even if a reprint charm counted for less points it might even free up a few more original charms for trade.

Nothing says it couldn't be a ROR reprint, that's even older and most of the above still applies.

In summary we are at a unique point in time after the end of the nugget cycle. If a TE reprint were ever to happen now would be the time. If there was ever a TE to reprint CoGF would be it.

We can all feel the treasure pool getting diluted more and more year after year. We all know it's not sustainable but that TEs drive sales. And after this TE we are basically back on the path towards the next COA. We cant solve that problem today but we can push that problem out by two more years and finally give people a chance to catch up without hurting anyones investment or sales.

There will always be time to print another new TE, this is quite probably the last chance we will ever have to step back for a moment, follow our better nature and let people catch up like we have been saying is important for years. Anyway that's all I got, probably wont donny good but worth saying none the less.

I think you are very optimistic to believe that reprinting the CoFG would increase sales, as opposed to the opposite when compared with a new +3 treasure URTE.



For the oft repeated claim that the "treasure pool getting diluted" - this is the kind of thing that would be easy for people to believe was happening even if it wasn't.

I had my best treasure pull ever after the last VTD. I don't presume this means there is a a trend towards better treasure.

I know there are some (incomplete) treasure stats kept somewhere.

Can someone with the relevant statistical expertise please start a new thread and explain:
* What they mean by dilution
* What the data sets we have imply about dilution
Under what assumptions, and with what confidence?

If not, I think people should just dismiss claims that the treasure is getting diluted as unsupported by evidence.

Dergidan wrote: I'm happy the TE is back in the bead slot, but I will continue to lobby for a synergy effect (provides the Good Fortune benefit but doesn't stack with it).

Maybe it's too complicated to write out on the token.

Second option would be a CoGF reprint in 2025

I have received death threats from Coaches regarding tokens with Synergy effects...

I don't think that treasure is getting diluted, I just believe more trade tokens end up in circulation. I am pretty sure the addition of Pirate Treasure Maps and the increased costs of the transmute recipes bear that out.

balthasar wrote: How about Bead of Bounty to mirror the alliteration in Ring of Riches? They are both +3 treasure, and I love me some alliteration

Still hoping for a swap of the Archerin gloves for a reprint of the +2 Assassin's Crossbow.

Will the Lenses of Greater Foesight add to a ranged AND melee Sneak Attack, or only the melee?

Done! BoB is born!

Lenses add to the SA total...however you get there. But that's changed now....

Jeff Martin wrote:

Dergidan wrote: I'm happy the TE is back in the bead slot, but I will continue to lobby for a synergy effect (provides the Good Fortune benefit but doesn't stack with it).

Maybe it's too complicated to write out on the token.

Second option would be a CoGF reprint in 2025

I have received death threats from Coaches regarding tokens with Synergy effects...

Fair enough. (your response, not the threats )

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Picc wrote: Making a case of a Charm of good fortune reprint again.

A reprint of Cogf would

Lets new people get in on existing synergy runs easier.

Stalls treasure gap creep for a few years.

If a COGF reprint were eligible for the COA recipie it would let people who have joined over VTD fully catch up now rather then having to wait 5 more years.

It would give beads a few more years to find their identity before 2 of 3 were on long term lockdown.

This would probably drive more sales. I can only speak for myself but I would buy a few to save (like I would with any new TE) and a few more to complete another COA.

Nothing says we couldn't either restrict a reprinted TE to count for less (or even no) points toward a COA since the COA recipie only mentioned the original. Even if a reprint charm counted for less points it might even free up a few more original charms for trade.

Nothing says it couldn't be a ROR reprint, that's even older and most of the above still applies.

In summary we are at a unique point in time after the end of the nugget cycle. If a TE reprint were ever to happen now would be the time. If there was ever a TE to reprint CoGF would be it.

We can all feel the treasure pool getting diluted more and more year after year. We all know it's not sustainable but that TEs drive sales. And after this TE we are basically back on the path towards the next COA. We cant solve that problem today but we can push that problem out by two more years and finally give people a chance to catch up without hurting anyones investment or sales.

There will always be time to print another new TE, this is quite probably the last chance we will ever have to step back for a moment, follow our better nature and let people catch up like we have been saying is important for years. Anyway that's all I got, probably wont donny good but worth saying none the less.

I think you are very optimistic to believe that reprinting the CoFG would increase sales, as opposed to the opposite when compared with a new +3 treasure URTE.



For the oft repeated claim that the "treasure pool getting diluted" - this is the kind of thing that would be easy for people to believe was happening even if it wasn't.

I had my best treasure pull ever after the last VTD. I don't presume this means there is a a trend towards better treasure.

I know there are some (incomplete) treasure stats kept somewhere.

Can someone with the relevant statistical expertise please start a new thread and explain:
* What they mean by dilution
* What the data sets we have imply about dilution
Under what assumptions, and with what confidence?

If not, I think people should just dismiss claims that the treasure is getting diluted as unsupported by evidence.

With respect I think your wrong and not arguing in good faith. I said my bit, it's up to people if they want to belive it or not.

If you would like to see if the pool is being deluted feel free to pour over the yearly treasure spreadsheets. I'm sure you'll find a way to interpret things to your favor. But in the interest of short hand how many non plat monster bits are in this year set vs last year or the year before again?

David Harris wrote: Ooh...can we get the other bead art for the Bead of Abundance, the one that was on the Bead of Good Fortune with the golden spiral bands!

I like it better than this one which is the old Bead of Stout picture.

Done!

jpotter wrote: I'd like to post this here as well. In order to close the gap between newer and older players, I'd propose that the new TEs have diminishing returns for people with the older items. This means older players still get something from them, but newer players get more:


2023 Bead of Riches
If CoA/RoR equipped: +1 treasure
If no CoA/RoR equipped: +3 treasure

2025
Ioun Stone of Good Fortune:
If CoA/CoGF equipped: +1 treasure
If not, CoGF effect (works with the CoGF as well)

2027
AoTF reprint


NEW COA 2.0 (using the Bead of Riches, Ioun stone of good fortune, aotf):

If CoA/allthecrap equipped: + 4 treasure
If no CoA equipped: +13 treasure

+100 to this. Great idea James.