TOPIC: 2023 Ultra Rare Beta Token Images

OrionW wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: Comparing Book of Useful Scrolls to Carter's Tome, I think it's underpowered. Carter's lets you recast a 2nd level or lower spell as a scroll once per day. Given that, it seems like the Book of Useful Scrolls could be Rare or lower. A rare scroll seems pretty comparable to a 2nd level spell. Maybe a bit less powerful, but more versatile.

At once a game I would prefer to just have the scroll level removed. It does seem underwhelming.

Agree, consider this there is only one UR scroll in existence, it is Scroll Fly and it is a woodie from 2005. I know they are out there in collections. It seems like opening it up to any scrolls at most gives Scroll Fly holders the equivalent of a free Potion of Leaping Attack, not over powered in my opinion. I see no reason why this should be restricted. Unless there are plans for future UR scrolls, which seems unlikely.

BTW an UR scroll of Power Word Kill sounds amazing! jk

Ring of Sacred Wrath and Robe of Skill are adding significant complication to the game. Introducing environmental effects to retribution damage is a new thing and something else for DM’s to track. Bonuses based on spell level is interesting but just another variable to track for spell casting which is already way complicated.

I love that Clerics can use the flaming sword on so many levels XD



But mainly this one XD

Thanks Jeff for including us in this process. Overall, a pretty solid set. Comments below. For what its worth, my comments are coming from the perspective of someone who normally plays at nightmare+ level and plays the wizard class 75% of the time.

Acherin's Deadly Gloves - Feels like a nice option. I certainly don't feel like there's any power creep here. I'm not sure my wizard would replace the Blessed Tempest Gloves with this and not sure my Ranger would opt for this over the Gloves of Greater Archery. It's something to think about, but doesn't feel like a must have.

Arcane Charm - Thank you so much for adding another Arcane option to the set. This definitely makes me want to revisit the arcane items. The Bracelet is a very tough sell to equip, but the belt might be an option to get to the set bonus.

Bead of Abundance - No matter how many treasure chips it offers; 1, 2, 3 or 4 it would be a must have in any build. It will tie up a slot until such time as it might transmute into something else. I only ask that if/when you expand bead slots again that you offer options/alternatives (i.e. multiple ways to expand those slots).

Book of Useful Scrolls - It's slotless, so it's a nice to have. Certain does feel underwhelming and a far cry from where wizards want to be - A spellbook. At once per game, I'm not sure why it has to be limited to common and uncommon scrolls. However, I understand you're probably being cautious as not to unwittingly let any abuse creep into play. Overall, (I'll say it again) it does feel somewhat underwhelming.

Druegar's Death Die/Figurine of Power: Phoenix - I missed both of these the first time and am very happy to see reprints.

Greaves of Absorbtion - This is an easy choice to upgrade from the current greaves. I can see going to the relic. Not sure if the legendary will be worth the cost. Guess I'll have to see the recipe.

Grunnel's Funnel - Only necessary because Grunnel is in the title. Otherwise, I'll just selfishly continue to use the Pouch of Tulz.

Ioun Stone Amethyst Cube - This one, and its transmute path scare me the most. On one hand, I probably don't need as much HP if I equip this and its transmute path counterparts. It may put clerics out of business.

Necklace of the Zephyr - Very nice for anyone that doesn't have the wizard relic/legendary.

Robe of Skill - Again, nice for new to intermediate wizards.

Shirt of the Shrewd - I advocated for the -1 to saves over -1 to AC, but have to admit that might be a bit much. I'd be ok with a -1 to hit. Either way, it's just a means to get to the Arcanum version, which is clearly better at this point.

Again, I like the set. It has 10-12 tokens I'll want to get, which is about normal.

Cranston wrote: Ring of Sacred Wrath and Robe of Skill are adding significant complication to the game. Introducing environmental effects to retribution damage is a new thing and something else for DM’s to track. Bonuses based on spell level is interesting but just another variable to track for spell casting which is already way complicated.

Robe I get, but isn't Ring of Sacred Wrath just essentially "deals 5 retribution damage as sacred" ?

That said, I like retribution, I would still prefer it in a new slot. Since we have the cloak though, I'm all for this ring.

Please consider taking FOB off the Sun Scimitar. Monks are likely already the most powerful class in the game.

Should Acherin's and Arcane charm be "Ranged" rather than Range?

Acherin's wording feels a bit clunky. Perhaps "A natural 20 on a ranged attack does x3 if the attack is a critical hit"? On a side note, I can just see a player who pulls this as their 00 sliding a 20 and the DM telling them, 'unfortunately this monster is immune to critical hits"

With that, perhaps a token at rare that allows for the Charm of Final Repose type effect? Especially if the plan is to include a lot of undead this year? Or maybe a completion token that does the same?

I liked the good fortune effect better than a straight +3, but I can get behind either a +2 or +3 bead.

The whispers bead is great, and might be the best art of the whole set.

At 1/game, the book of useful scrolls shouldn't be plural. That said, I'd also like to see rare or lower if it stays 1/game. If you need, maybe non-healing scrolls?

I like the honorarily named boots. I think they need more honestly, but that's just me.

Love the Cloak. Please change nothing.

I like the 3 reprints. The death die looks quite mystical, I wonder if there is some code on the symbols.

Greaves. I think this token is ok, but would also be ok at -5 or -8 rather than 10. It's still a big power jump from -2 from a type, unless that type comes up a LOT in a dungeon.

Funnel is great. Would this include Death's Door?

Cube is fine. I'm not too excited by this effect, but a 00 player would be for sure.

Lenses become a really strong token for all, definitely for melee rogues. A rogue with Cranston's and LoVI or LoA and these gets +5 SA damage, correct? I'm pretty sure the answer is yes, but just want validation.

Necklace of the Zephyr is great, but given that bracelets of the zephyr are "cast as a scroll" and this is (presumably) not, it may need a different name. Unless the idea is to reverse the bracelets ruling perhaps?

Ring of the Sacred see above

I kind of like the robe, though I don't love that players have to remember it rather than it being on the party card. Would it be too vanilla at a flat +1?

Shirt I think is good. While the point that the negative single stat is less of a hinderance than -1 saves is a valid one, I'd also argue that the extra focus is likely worth more than a single stat point as well.

These are looking good, and, to me, a significant step up.

Should the text on Acherin's Deadly Gloves be "A Ranged slide of "20"...."?

And with the changes to the definition off "Ranged", am I correct that it counts for spell slides as well as physical melee slides?

Book of Useful Scrolls: seems very weak; at least eliminate the rarity restriction. One scroll per game as a FA without turning in? I think that might be OK.

Greaves of Absorption: I liked this being a treasure-box only slot. With this UR, will veteran players ever care about pulling a new greaves slot from the treasure box? Probably not.

A quick response with my primary concerns:

Primary Concerns:
The Lenses of Greater FoeSight are now one of the of the highest damaging tokens in the game at +8 (legendary bogs and ralsons has it beat) While the full +8 has restrictions on a rogue sneak attack, I think this is probably too much.

The base +melee damage would be fine at +2 as it would immediately become BiS at +2 once players had reached their target +hit. Please also note that Melee rangers and Monks double dip on this damage, so +3 feels even larger for those classes.

If melee rogues need a buff, maybe split this into 2 tokens, one that buffs Rogue sneak attack and the other with the broad + damage? It's also possible that Rogue may just need a card level change vs being "patched" with a single slot providing +8 damage on a single UR token.


Deadly Gloves:
Does this 4x Crit for a Dwarf Fighter? That could be... a lot of damage for an Io's Dwarf. I don't know if it's really an issue or not, but pointing it out.

Wade Schwendemann (Dr. Uid) wrote:
Please consider taking FOB off the Sun Scimitar. Monks are likely already the most powerful class in the game.

Cube is fine. I'm not too excited by this effect, but a 00 player would be for sure.

If I were a new player that selected Monk and opened a Scimitar, I would feel pretty bad when the coach tells me I can't use it to Flurry. It's weird to have UR weapons that Monks can use, but not Flurry with.

The Scimitar has the same damage wheel as the Flaming Blade.

Mike Steele wrote: Comparing Book of Useful Scrolls to Carter's Tome, I think it's underpowered. Carter's lets you recast a 2nd level or lower spell as a scroll once per day. Given that, it seems like the Book of Useful Scrolls could be Rare or lower. A rare scroll seems pretty comparable to a 2nd level spell. Maybe a bit less powerful, but more versatile.

As is, the book of useful spells wouldn’t be appealing to new players due to how narrow it is (1/game and c-uc scrolls) and only marginally appealing to die hard veteran players.

We were told a tome/book slot is coming some time in the future. Would anyone choose this instead of either Carter’s or Gregor’s? Carter’s is flatly more powerful for most combat applications (as well as for utility spells) and Gregor’s is likely BiS when/if that slot happens.

For this to be appealing to new players, it would need to be (at least) c-r scroll 1/game or c-uc 1/room. For vets, I would recommend any scroll 1/game.

Two more notes on this:
1. Please make this part of a transmute next year and let people know in advance (like with the holy avenger.)
2. Please restrict it back to wizard - thematically, bards and clerics having a spellbook makes TD feel further from its d&d roots.

Fred

Grizwald wrote:

Wade Schwendemann (Dr. Uid) wrote:
Please consider taking FOB off the Sun Scimitar. Monks are likely already the most powerful class in the game.

Cube is fine. I'm not too excited by this effect, but a 00 player would be for sure.

If I were a new player that selected Monk and opened a Scimitar, I would feel pretty bad when the coach tells me I can't use it to Flurry. It's weird to have UR weapons that Monks can use, but not Flurry with.

The Scimitar has the same damage wheel as the Flaming Blade.

The big difference is that the Sun Scimitar does all fire damage while the Flaming Blade does 2 points of fire. Just hope you don't use it against a fire immune monster

I'm happy the TE is back in the bead slot, but I will continue to lobby for a synergy effect (provides the Good Fortune benefit but doesn't stack with it).

Maybe it's too complicated to write out on the token.

Second option would be a CoGF reprint in 2025