TOPIC: 2023 Re-Print Ideas

Mike Steele wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Flik wrote:

Fiddy wrote:

Iross wrote:

Dergidan wrote:

Guedoji wrote: Please reprint the ingredients for Totem of Heroism, if you plan to keep it pirate themed it will work, and it would allow more of us to do more runs to continue to collect the parts.

AGREED.

This set makes the most sense to me as something a player could save up for over time, trading and collecting.

+1. I'd like to see them reprinted quite a lot - this gives newer players an easier way to save up tokens for their first Legendary, and it's another way they can achieve a level 5 character without needing to purchase multiple UR tokens.

I'm not certain "Legendary" and "easier" are supposed to go together.

I agree. If you leave these tokens in the treasure or whatever for XX more years then every single player will have one and then why is it even Legendary and why do other level enhancers exist after this?

And it won't be the small treasure people that will be making them over the years - it will be the guys doing dozens of runs, building them (or selling the bits) in bulk.

It's cool as a one off, but probably not something that should stay in treasure more than a year.

I like the idea of a new set of special tokens in the treasure boxes every year.

I agree with Mike, I like the idea of something different each year. It adds excitement for the new cool thing. I guess I wouldn't be opposed to the 40 platinum's for ToH sticking around one more year, but more than that definitely reduces the Legendariness. With only one year of circulation most people will have to really work to complete one.

David Harris wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Flik wrote:

Fiddy wrote:

Iross wrote:

Dergidan wrote:

Guedoji wrote: Please reprint the ingredients for Totem of Heroism, if you plan to keep it pirate themed it will work, and it would allow more of us to do more runs to continue to collect the parts.

AGREED.

This set makes the most sense to me as something a player could save up for over time, trading and collecting.

+1. I'd like to see them reprinted quite a lot - this gives newer players an easier way to save up tokens for their first Legendary, and it's another way they can achieve a level 5 character without needing to purchase multiple UR tokens.

I'm not certain "Legendary" and "easier" are supposed to go together.

I agree. If you leave these tokens in the treasure or whatever for XX more years then every single player will have one and then why is it even Legendary and why do other level enhancers exist after this?

And it won't be the small treasure people that will be making them over the years - it will be the guys doing dozens of runs, building them (or selling the bits) in bulk.

It's cool as a one off, but probably not something that should stay in treasure more than a year.

I like the idea of a new set of special tokens in the treasure boxes every year.

I agree with Mike, I like the idea of something different each year. It adds excitement for the new cool thing. I guess I wouldn't be opposed to the 40 platinum's for ToH sticking around one more year, but more than that definitely reduces the Legendariness. With only one year of circulation most people will have to really work to complete one.

Charms of transmorph, remic recipie fragments, tinker toys. We may already be there.

Ian Lee wrote: People trade. People sell. You can get like 13 tinker toys from me right now, though it would be expensive to go that route as I'm not pricing for bulk buying.

I estimate 5 ToH worth are generated each month of VTD. It will take time for people to coalesce, and that's maybe not comparable to how many legendaries people are transmuting each month, but it's not a trivial number.

There are 120 runs in a VTD weekend. If all tickets are sold, and all ten players get max treasure, that makes 27,600 pulls. If the bits fall at 3%, which may be high, that means 828 per weekend. Assuming almost perfect distribution and lots of trading, that would result in 20 of the legendary per weekend. I don't think 5 per month is a lot, especially if it encourages trading, like they were meant to, but if 20 per month were made, that would be closer to a relic than legendary?

balthasar wrote:

Ian Lee wrote: People trade. People sell. You can get like 13 tinker toys from me right now, though it would be expensive to go that route as I'm not pricing for bulk buying.

I estimate 5 ToH worth are generated each month of VTD. It will take time for people to coalesce, and that's maybe not comparable to how many legendaries people are transmuting each month, but it's not a trivial number.

There are 120 runs in a VTD weekend. If all tickets are sold, and all ten players get max treasure, that makes 27,600 pulls. If the bits fall at 3%, which may be high, that means 828 per weekend. Assuming almost perfect distribution and lots of trading, that would result in 20 of the legendary per weekend. I don't think 5 per month is a lot, especially if it encourages trading, like they were meant to, but if 20 per month were made, that would be closer to a relic than legendary?

The truth probably lies in between. Some number of unsold tickets exists each VTD weekend and while many runs get max treasure, I'm guess many do not. Only the PTB know exactly. I'm sure they know exactly how many potential ToH they are releasing. But the fact that the market is essentially inefficient means many fewer than the possible will be actually made. Case in point look at the inefficiency in CoA or Skull transmutes. To this day HoP, RoR and many CoGF have not been converted to CoA yet. And all 7 teeth are available on the secondary market. How much more will 40 unique tokens be for people to "finish" the transmute. Many incomplete sets and 1 offs will sit in collections for years. Which is why it is a positive that it is a legendary and is not bound by the 2 year transmute rule.

The estimate of 5 is an attempt at being realistic. There will never be anything remotely close to perfect distribution or perfect coordination between players.

1000 tickets, 15 pulls per ticket (for VTD, GC way less), 3% drop rate, divide in half to get 225 usable.

Gen Con, 8000 tickets, 8 pulls per ticket, 3% drop rate, divide by ~10, still end up with around 200 usable, so still 5 ToH generated.

In total, estimate about 40 ToH made. After Laz's 20, Trent's 5, etc., ...

In comparison, there could be 40 of Luna and Muk's already made. So, it would be less. It's also an unnecessary effect. Level boosters are prolific.

Ian Lee wrote: Level boosters are prolific.

I've had some RoH and CoH on offer for about a month with 0 inquiries, so my single data point says everyone that wants a level booster has one.

(Yes, I'm joking.)

Fiddy wrote:

Ian Lee wrote: Level boosters are prolific.

I've had some RoH and CoH on offer for about a month with 0 inquiries, so my single data point says everyone that wants a level booster has one.

(Yes, I'm joking.)

Yeah slotless will make ToH very attractive at the top end especially. I agree with Ian's analysis for 2022, early 2023. The number will creep higer over time, but will still stay relatively small.

David Harris wrote: Yeah slotless will make ToH very attractive at the top end especially. I agree with Ian's analysis for 2022, early 2023. The number will creep higer over time, but will still stay relatively small.

Honestly I don't know about this. I am thinking the "top-end" will have it from 2 eldritch pieces.

I do agree with others that I hope this means a new space can be explored with the Arcanum set.

I see this as a great loaner piece.

Maybe change the legendary level booster to a relic and have the platinum bits in treasure for two years? Relics have 2 year span in which they can be made and tend to have the URs needed to make them in print for 2 years and legendary tokens are open ended, but having the ingredients for this token only in treasure for one year seems like a departure from either system used to make the relics and legendary tokens. Would having a second year of availability for the platinum bits be a good compromise?

Totem of Heroism is timeless.

Can just have a different recipe in future years that uses different components. Let this year play out and see how this ends up working since all of this is guessing what will actually happen, then can reassess after a year off (if treasure orders have to be committed to early enough or don't take a year off if can deal with treasure later).

- Please don't leave the Tinker Bits in the boxes "forever". Legendaries are supposed to be hard to make and there's other ways for players to get a level bump.

- Please don't reprint the Relic's. I remember there being a thread where you confirmed Relic's would not ever be reprinted in their exact form. Please stick to this.

Rob F wrote: - Please don't leave the Tinker Bits in the boxes "forever". Legendaries are supposed to be hard to make and there's other ways for players to get a level bump.

- Please don't reprint the Relic's. I remember there being a thread where you confirmed Relic's would not ever be reprinted in their exact form. Please stick to this.

Jeff's quote was "I have no plans to do a complete reprint of any Relic, but we might eventually get around to making something that is sort of like an old one...so instead of a Ring that is +4 to saves, it might be +2 saves and +6 hit points." from post 92 on this thread truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=570&id=245369&start=84#286216

It's worth pointing out that he said that nearly 5 years ago, and a lot of things have changed since then. He may have had no plans back then to do a complete reprint of a Relic, but that doesn't stop TD from having plans to do so now.