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TOPIC: 2023 Transmuted Token Ideas

2023 Transmuted Token Ideas 2 years 4 months ago #73

Fred K wrote:

Dergidan wrote: +1 to the idea of a new crossbow transmute path, usable by multiple classes. +2 Crow's Nest Crossbow is a great name. Transmute to a relic +3 Pirate Assassin's Crossbow with x3 damage on natural 20. Transmute that into legendary +4 Nameless Assassin's Crossbow with x3 on any critical hit.

Too good?

Please DO NOT reprint Assassin's crossbow only to nerf it. Please DO reprint to make it more available, or print an alternative.

For the record I own one and would be happy to see a reprint (as-is!) even if the value of my token drops. I want to see more Rogues have access to it.


I would recommend something of a compromise. The existing assassin's crossbow wasn't designed in mind with a 17-20 crit range. Maybe have a re-print of the UR +2 only be on a natural 20 but then have a transmute path that the +3 relic is X3 on any crit and the legendary allowing for the sneak to be multiplied as well (yes - that means a LOT more damage than currently.) Alternately, on the legendary have some other affect like ammunition isn't consumed.

Fred


If the Assassin's Crossbow is given a transmute path then there's not much reason to downpower the UR - the proposed relic would be stronger than the UR version either way.

I'd strongly prefer to not see any transmute path for it at all though to be honest. The UR is already a BiS weapon and I don't think it needs an even stronger version. I'd rather see the Nightshade's Throwing Dagger given a transmute path in that case, as it'll then give a choice of BiS builds rather than further widening the gap between Assassin's Crossbow and the other weapons.

Fiddy wrote: I would seek clarification from Druegar on that interpretation. It seems like the intent of that language on Thor's (especially given the explicit example token it calls out) is that you can't stack two effects that expand crit range from 20 to 19 to then create an overall effect that lets you also crit on 18. Whereas the intent with Raphiel's isn't that you are stacking to expand a crit range but are instead replacing your weapon's crit range but only when dealing a sneak attack.

I think it is possibly subtle but different.


I'm happy to create a thread to ask the question, I'd not thought it ambiguous before now based on the below so haven't created a thread before, but am certainly open to being pleasantly surprised.

Edit: Thread created - truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=572&id=254316

Thor’s +5 Returning Hammer of Smiting
This hammer is permanently imbued with the smiting effect. This means that when used in combat, a critical hit can be scored if the player slides a natural 19 or 20. This weapon is not subject to further effect from Oil of Smiting or any other crit-enhancing magic.

Raphiel’s Sneaky Necklace
Misc: Expanded Crit Range

PHB
Expanded crit effects do not stack.
I play Rogue. Occasionally I even play Rogue well.

Current Rogue Build

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Last edit: by Iross.

2023 Transmuted Token Ideas 2 years 4 months ago #74

Endgame wrote: Can we get another 4* treasure boosting token like the charm from a few years back? Basically like the following:


Ioun stone of treasure boosting

The wearer may increase the effect of an Ultra Rare or lower rarity Treasure-Enhancing token by +1

No more than one Treasure-Enhancing token may be equipped by the wearer of this charm.

For the purpose of this token’s restriction, Ioun Stone of Treasure Boosting does not count as a Treasure-Enhancing token.


I like this idea ^^
Turned into adventurer jerky by Smoak in 2010
Proudly part of first group to survive Felurian's Feast at GHC 2021
Receives -3 Treasure thanks to dumb goblins
~Dungeon Master~

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2023 Transmuted Token Ideas 2 years 4 months ago #75

jpotter wrote: I would love to see some relic and legendary transmutes in slots that don't currently have them (or have very few options):

eyes
earrings (hopeful for the teased earcuff of orbits transmute line)
legs (yes I want competition with kilt)
feet (yes I want competition with bot4w)
hands
ioun stones and charms


+1

I'd rather see them show up in non-multi-slotted places first: Eyes, Hands, Legs, Boots.

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2023 Transmuted Token Ideas 2 years 4 months ago #76

Fiddy wrote: Legendary weapon for Fighters (and I guess let Barbarians and Paladins use it to). Saying that Fighters don't need cool tricks because they have access to the best equipment is a bit silly when their special weapon is not significantly better than one usable by all.


I assume you mean melee?

+1 - Ideally Barbarians and Paladins should be able to use it but Fighters should get a special benefit.

It should be 1-handed to synergize with Viv's shield synergy.

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2023 Transmuted Token Ideas 2 years 4 months ago #77

Endgame wrote: +3 Amulet of Protection
4*
+3 AC
+3 All saves

Uses Treasure Box Rare neck tokens as optional ingredients


I like it - is this a 4 point exalted or a Relic do you think?

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2023 Transmuted Token Ideas 2 years 4 months ago #78

Endgame wrote: Arcane Earcuff of Orbits
5*
Counts as an Arcane Earcuff and Earcuff of Orbits
Part of the Arcane set.

Combines Earcuff of Orbits and Arcane Earcuff in a single slot, like Charm of Awakened Synergy combined two charms into 1 slot. This doesn't creep the IS slot expansion at all, yet fills the request to have a transmute for Earcuff of Orbits. It also leaves room for Orion's belt and Arcane Bracelets to not become obsolete with a token that hits the IS cap all on its own.


An Relic Ear slot that gives +2 Charm and +2 Ioun printed 4 years after a Relic Waist slot that gives +1 Charm and +2 Ioun doesn't sit well with me.

1 slot into 4 is only available as a legendary today.

At Relic, and with other fairly recent tokens, this would mean for 1 relic and 0/1/2 URs you could have your choice of:
+2 Ioun, +2 Charm
+2 Ioun, +1 Charm, +1 Back
+2 Ioun, +1 Charm, +1 Ring
+2 Ioun, +1 Back, +1 Ring

I think that's too much power and flexibility at Relic for anything but the neck slot.

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Last edit: by Matthew Hayward.

2023 Transmuted Token Ideas 2 years 4 months ago #79

Reap wrote: I would go with the simple option for Orbits:

Relic Earcuff of Orbits: +3 Ioun
Legendary Earcuff of Orbits: +4 Ioun


Since STR/melee builds are starting to fall behind ranged these days:

Relic Gloves: +6 STR
Legendary Gloves: +8 STR


I don't want to make a whole thing of this, but I'll just say my VTD monk deals 90+ damage virtually every round with no downsides, and my VTD wizard has to spend exhaustible spell spots to do 45.

Wizard can get up to 90 a round, and even exceed it for a few rounds per dungeon.

My monk deals more damage than my wizard.

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2023 Transmuted Token Ideas 2 years 4 months ago #80

Grizwald wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: I'd like something like a Rare Polymorph Token - Dragon Whelp, that has a decent damage wheel with fire damage built in, and maybe can attack at range once per room.

Then, I'd like a Transmuted Polymorph token along the lines of a young Dragon, which has a better damage wheel and can grant flying / attack at range. Perhaps it just grants the flying/attack at range (similar to Potion of Leaping or the wooden Flight potion) as a consumable to those that can't polymorph.

It's way past time to give a really special Polymorph token to polymorphers, especially for users of Iktomi.


OK, but is you spend more than RRR in a combat, you die at the end of the turn.


:laugh:

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2023 Transmuted Token Ideas 2 years 4 months ago #81

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Endgame wrote: +3 Amulet of Protection
4*
+3 AC
+3 All saves

Uses Treasure Box Rare neck tokens as optional ingredients


I like it - is this a 4 point exalted or a Relic do you think?

4* for sure. I doubt anyone would build it as a relic, and I don’t think it would compare favorably to even medallion of Valhalla / Sweetwoods

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2023 Transmuted Token Ideas 2 years 4 months ago #82

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Reap wrote: I would go with the simple option for Orbits:

Relic Earcuff of Orbits: +3 Ioun
Legendary Earcuff of Orbits: +4 Ioun


Since STR/melee builds are starting to fall behind ranged these days:

Relic Gloves: +6 STR
Legendary Gloves: +8 STR


I don't want to make a whole thing of this, but I'll just say my VTD monk deals 90+ damage virtually every round with no downsides, and my VTD wizard has to spend exhaustible spell spots to do 45.

Wizard can get up to 90 a round, and even exceed it for a few rounds per dungeon.

My monk deals more damage than my wizard.


Fully built out wizards will have a spell damage bonus of 45+ (mine is 47 and I skipped a few points so as to have better saves and 88 hp.) Assuming Ashenne's and a Ring of Expertise, you get the following:
Round one: Acid ray (standard action - spell isn't consumed - expertise) for 57, free action quickened acid splash for 53 damage. Total 110 round one.
One zero level spell consumed.
5 hp damage
Round two: Magic missile (standard action) for 58, quickened conserved sharpened Ray of Shock for 65
Total 123 for round two.
One 1st level spell slot consumed and 15 hp damage.
Round three: Acid splash for 53
One 0 level slot consumed.

Combat two:
Round one: Acid ray (standard action - spell isn't consumed - expertise) for 57, free action quickened acid splash for 53 damage. Total 110 round one.
One zero level spell consumed.
5 hp damage
Round two: Magic missile (standard action) for 58, quickened conserved sharpened Ray of Shock for 65
Total 123 for round two.
One 1st level spell slot consumed and 15 hp damage.
Round three: Acid splash for 53
One 0 level slot consumed.

Combat three:
Round one: Acid ray (standard action - spell isn't consumed - expertise) for 57, free action quickened acid splash for 53 damage. Total 110 round one.
One zero level spell consumed.
5 hp damage
Round two: Magic missile (standard action) for 58, quickened conserved sharpened Ray of Shock for 65
Total 123 for round two.
One 1st level spell slot consumed and 15 hp damage.
Round three: Acid splash for 53
One 0 level slot consumed out of acid splashes

Combat four:
Round one: Acid ray (standard action - spell isn't consumed - expertise) for 57, free action MEC CoSS fireball for 87 (20 to all other opponents), quickened fireball (instant action) for 67 damage. Total 211 round one.
One 3rd level spell consumed.
30 hp damage
Round two: Sharpened Ray of Shock for 65 (standard and bonus actions)
Total 65 for round two.
One 2nd level spell slot consumed and 5 hp damage.
Round three: Ray of Shock (charm of spell swapping) for 65 (standard action)
One 3rd level slot consumed.

Total spell slots remaining after 12 rounds of combat: 5
Hp damage taken: 90

-This isn't fully optimized - it is possible to do more damage and cast more spells but it shows that wizard keeps up pretty well with higher output classes. It isn't averaging 110 per round (monk is the DPS leader and, if it is landing all the hits should be over 100) but the wizard did average 76 damage per round (all at range) with missing on rays only on a natural 1. Downside is it took 90 damage over 4 rooms to make that happen. Arcanist can probably show a better set of spell attacks doing more damage but what I put down should be pretty reasonable to achieve.

If anything, I would have wizards have new items to help mute the damage they are taking in casting rather than substantial increases in damage.

Fred
What do we want? Evidence based science! When do we want it? After peer review!

Elf Wizard build
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2023 Transmuted Token Ideas 2 years 4 months ago #83

Outside of the CoA, have any transmute recipes been created that used tokens that were no longer in print as ingredients? I have seen suggestions for a combined Ioun Stone treasure enhancer, which could be considered similar to the CoA as it gets us more treasure, but a recipe for the greaves or the necklaces would seem to be unprecedented.

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2023 Transmuted Token Ideas 2 years 4 months ago #84

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Reap wrote: I would go with the simple option for Orbits:

Relic Earcuff of Orbits: +3 Ioun
Legendary Earcuff of Orbits: +4 Ioun


Since STR/melee builds are starting to fall behind ranged these days:

Relic Gloves: +6 STR
Legendary Gloves: +8 STR


I don't want to make a whole thing of this, but I'll just say my VTD monk deals 90+ damage virtually every round with no downsides, and my VTD wizard has to spend exhaustible spell spots to do 45.

Wizard can get up to 90 a round, and even exceed it for a few rounds per dungeon.

My monk deals more damage than my wizard.

Thrown weapon Monk is better than melee Monk now due to the incredible increase to ranged in 2021. It doesn’t matter what way you buff Damage, Monk is going to come out on top as long as Monk is on the +damage tokens.

Of course, that isn’t entirely accurate either - against AC 40+ wizard is going to be the top damage dealer.

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Last edit: by Endgame.
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