TOPIC: 2022 Recipe Discussion

Also, plenty of people have relics who don't have CoA or may not have all of the nuggets. There are probably people with a relic who don't have any URs when we consider the broader player base and not just the folks who have been slamming VTD. Then, lots of people without max treasure who have been getting max treasure because of token share on VTD runs.

jedibcg wrote:

Wade Schwendemann (Dr. Uid) wrote:

Endgame wrote: 4* and Relics I’m less a fan of that - we don’t really expect people in the market for 4* and relics to have max treasure, do we?

4* no
Relic: Honestly probably, right?

Maybe not all, but most.

There is some strange logic here. Having max treasure enchancers tells you nothing about the rest of someone's collection. There is are big assumptions being made to assume they do want 4* and/or Relics.

I believe the typical forum logic is to start adding treasure enhancers before adding lots of other URs to builds, as you can use the treasure from runs to enhance your builds. This logic really only works if you can build up to better tokens via treasure. With CoAs hitting 1500-1800, I’m not sure you can really make the case to someone that they should spring for a CoA and 3 nuggets to start getting mats to build $300 relics.

It would be nice if you could have a reasonable chance to make 3*s with a rare TE and a charm of treasure boosting after a few runs. 4*s with maybe +4-+6 treasure, and relics with +10 treasure. I don’t really know exactly where it should land, but would look at 2018 relic recipes to start (before the big TG inflation)

Endgame wrote: With CoAs hitting 1500-1800, I’m not sure you can really make the case to someone that they should spring for a CoA and 3 nuggets to start getting mats to build $300 relics.

Why does purchasing a CoA have to be the only way someone acquired one?
I haven't a clue how many people have purchased a CoA for any amount of money. I haven't a clue how many people have one that they transmuted. Not how many have been pulled from treasure boxes. I imagine no one knows this information. Just like no one knows what everyone else's collection (I don't know if you can view other's collections in Trent's website or not but that would be a very small minority of collections if that is the case.) My point is we have no data on what tokens anyone has, nor on what anyone else wants. Make whatever assumptions you want but remember they are just assumptions. You cannot test them out, nor can they be used as proof. If you want to collect said data and then report on it, okay. Until then I am going to call them strange logic.

jedibcg wrote:

Endgame wrote: With CoAs hitting 1500-1800, I’m not sure you can really make the case to someone that they should spring for a CoA and 3 nuggets to start getting mats to build $300 relics.

Why does purchasing a CoA have to be the only way someone acquired one?
I haven't a clue how many people have purchased a CoA for any amount of money. I haven't a clue how many people have one that they transmuted. Not how many have been pulled from treasure boxes. I imagine no one knows this information. Just like no one knows what everyone else's collection (I don't know if you can view other's collections in Trent's website or not but that would be a very small minority of collections if that is the case.) My point is we have no data on what tokens anyone has, nor on what anyone else wants. Make whatever assumptions you want but remember they are just assumptions. You cannot test them out, nor can they be used as proof. If you want to collect said data and then report on it, okay. Until then I am going to call them strange logic.

I think Endgame's point is for new players, the standard advise is buy TEs to increase pulls and at some point the increased cost and increased transmute recipes will change that to "buy outright" or "don't play Nightmare". (I would presume that) New players aren't getting from treasure boxes or transmuting CoAs.

Lequinian wrote:
I think Endgame's point is for new players, the standard advise is buy TEs to increase pulls and at some point the increased cost and increased transmute recipes will change that to "buy outright" or "don't play Nightmare". (I would presume that) New players aren't getting from treasure boxes or transmuting CoAs.

Could be but he originally said that people with Full TE don't want a certain kind of relics or 4*. If he is now arguing something different I apologize, because he commented on a chain involving that and thought that was still what he was talking about.

My statement was definitely an assumption based on no data.

I think it would be foolish to think "everyone" does things a particular way.

Lequinian wrote:

jedibcg wrote:

Endgame wrote: With CoAs hitting 1500-1800, I’m not sure you can really make the case to someone that they should spring for a CoA and 3 nuggets to start getting mats to build $300 relics.

Why does purchasing a CoA have to be the only way someone acquired one?
I haven't a clue how many people have purchased a CoA for any amount of money. I haven't a clue how many people have one that they transmuted. Not how many have been pulled from treasure boxes. I imagine no one knows this information. Just like no one knows what everyone else's collection (I don't know if you can view other's collections in Trent's website or not but that would be a very small minority of collections if that is the case.) My point is we have no data on what tokens anyone has, nor on what anyone else wants. Make whatever assumptions you want but remember they are just assumptions. You cannot test them out, nor can they be used as proof. If you want to collect said data and then report on it, okay. Until then I am going to call them strange logic.

I think Endgame's point is for new players, the standard advise is buy TEs to increase pulls and at some point the increased cost and increased transmute recipes will change that to "buy outright" or "don't play Nightmare". (I would presume that) New players aren't getting from treasure boxes or transmuting CoAs.

This. Thanks for the translation Lequinian.

Wade Schwendemann (Dr. Uid) wrote:

Endgame wrote: 4* and Relics I’m less a fan of that - we don’t really expect people in the market for 4* and relics to have max treasure, do we?

4* no
Relic: Honestly probably, right?

Maybe not all, but most.

To get max treasure, you have to acquire a Legendary one way or the other. A Legendary with approximately twice the value of many other lLgendaries, at that.

I believe it's fair to say that we shouldn't expect a Relic-level collector to acquire a Legendary before they build a Relic. I could see an argument for them having all three Ioun Stones, but I disagree on expecting a CoA.

NightGod wrote: To get max treasure, you have to acquire a Legendary one way or the other.

Not 100% true. You could still use HoP, RoR, and CoGF in place of CoA.

I believe it's fair to say that we shouldn't expect a Relic-level collector to acquire a Legendary before they build a Relic. I could see an argument for them having all three Ioun Stones, but I disagree on expecting a CoA.

I cannot say for certain but I think I had all of my CoA before I had a relic. Though the CoA was a timeless Relic at that time. But having a relic along with Max TE (whether it be with CoA or otherwise), is not the same as not wanting any additional relics.

I think the idea of using the CoA pieces separately definitely doesn’t work for newer player. For me when I started this year, I couldn’t get my hands on much of anything in terms of the CoA pieces and even those were at astronomical prices. I very much entered the way mentioned here in getting the CoA and nuggets first and then building out. I definitely know I have a different budget than most but out of the gate those were the areas I was willing to spend to maximize my investment in playing VTDs. Without that, playing runs for 3 treasures (especially if you are on a run in which you are pressured to use tokens you don’t understand and get “help” from party members who already ran the puzzle 5 times over the past few days) can be a bit of a feel bad without the in person entertainment and skill test of sliding a puck.

Just realized that got way off of the reason for this thread…😉 back to recipe discussions!

Matt Soto wrote: Just realized that got way off of the reason for this thread…😉

Well I guess there's a first time for everything...