TOPIC: Images Going to the Printer! Thanks all!

Grizwald wrote:

Endgame wrote: Maybe you only throw it with one hand, but the technique is not conductive to anything but a buckler?

There's a length of line attached to the trident that you have to hold in the other hand to pull the trident back. Unfortunately, you forgot to attach the line to anything and it keeps getting away.

I like Druegar explanation that it is magic.

I mentally picture a person trying to throw some as big as a harpoon using both hands and not using anything in either hand. Then magic takes over and the harpoon flies towards the target.

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bpsymington wrote: Aw, no more INIT bonus from the lamp. I guess too many people had a misunderstanding about it.

I think a lot of people are still confused on the Health Bonus.

Dougout wrote:

Fiddy wrote:

AAckeret wrote:

SnakeEyes (Eric) wrote: RARE: +1 Heavy Triton Trident - Is it meant to be (2) handed? 🤔 ...since it can be thown?

Earlier drafts had it one handed, which made it higher damage than Thor’s, before adding an enchanters whetstone.

*edit* It’s still higher potential damage than Thor’s, but it limits shield use as it is in the final draft.

I wish I'd caught that on an earlier revision, too late now. Given the tight class restriction, Thor's was never a proper comparison. Compare instead to 2011's +2 Heavy Trident of Skewering. Given the power creep of everything else over the years, this feels more like a step backwards for Fighters.

Related Side Note: I don't understand Rare items being equivalent in stats to URs and above without Serious drawbacks, some seem really easy to overcome or not really drawbacks so much as restrictions that don't matter much.. Also it seems one or two tokens this set we forgot to account for the Enchanter's Whetstone's ability to boost some Rares higher than the UR+ Equivalent.

Which weapon is too good with the whetstone? The axe and the trident both seem in the right spot, outside of maybe the throwing the trident.

Comparing to 2021 UR Axe of the Dwarvish Kings. Axe average damage is 9.5 and +2 in hands of a Dwarf Fighter and +0 in the hands of a Barbarian, Fighter and Paladin and limited to melee.

Rare +1 Heavy Triton Trident average damage with whetstone is 7.3 and +2 in the hands of a Barbarian, Dwarf Fighter and Fighter and can be used in melee or thrown.

More limited in classes that can use it, damage is 2 lower on average and +2 more to hit for classes that can use it beside the Dwarf Fighter..

Dougout wrote:

bpsymington wrote: Aw, no more INIT bonus from the lamp. I guess too many people had a misunderstanding about it.

I think a lot of people are still confused on the Health Bonus.

But it's so straight forward....

Grumble grumble two handed throwing weapon should get barbarian two handed bonus grumble grumble. If you’ve got me riled up enough to throw things you should have to pay for it.

Endgame wrote:

Dougout wrote:

Fiddy wrote:

AAckeret wrote:

SnakeEyes (Eric) wrote: RARE: +1 Heavy Triton Trident - Is it meant to be (2) handed? 🤔 ...since it can be thown?

Earlier drafts had it one handed, which made it higher damage than Thor’s, before adding an enchanters whetstone.

*edit* It’s still higher potential damage than Thor’s, but it limits shield use as it is in the final draft.

I wish I'd caught that on an earlier revision, too late now. Given the tight class restriction, Thor's was never a proper comparison. Compare instead to 2011's +2 Heavy Trident of Skewering. Given the power creep of everything else over the years, this feels more like a step backwards for Fighters.

Related Side Note: I don't understand Rare items being equivalent in stats to URs and above without Serious drawbacks, some seem really easy to overcome or not really drawbacks so much as restrictions that don't matter much.. Also it seems one or two tokens this set we forgot to account for the Enchanter's Whetstone's ability to boost some Rares higher than the UR+ Equivalent.

Which weapon is too good with the whetstone? The axe and the trident both seem in the right spot, outside of maybe the throwing the trident.

mmmmm <whispers> Turkey... Maybe not too good, but pretty good to make a +1 rare into a +2 over a UR even putting Smiting on the UR. I mean the Hammer and other more recent than Celestial Set URs start at +2 UR for Expanded Crit. It's a fun Flavor Token either way.

Also, back to OP... There are other 2H Thrown Weapons.
Uncommon: Iron Long Spear
Ultra Rare: +2 Long Spear of Dragonslaying
Not sure what else, but checkout TokenDB and see what you find!

I too am curious about the 1H/2H Weapon Bonuses when Thrown... Thrown Weapons are considered Melee and Missile weapons, yeah? If composite and not mutually exclusive, shouldn't they receive those bonuses too? Some Melee classes do have such a hard time Hitting even with High Dex and/or Ranged to Hit bonuses seems unfair to hinder them further by nerfing their damage output and class abilities when hurling a weapon rather than using a standard ranged weapon. Not to digress, but one could also argue that high STR classes can pull any bow further, for higher impact velocity but I'm okay with Mighty only being on those specific weapons. a +1 Mighty Crossbow and new Mighty Rare Bows in general would be mighty nice one day, just sayin...

Side Note... A Barbarian Artificer who carries a Trebuchet to battle.

Now I’m imagining a trebuchet backpack

Dougout wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Dougout wrote:

Fiddy wrote:

AAckeret wrote:

SnakeEyes (Eric) wrote: RARE: +1 Heavy Triton Trident - Is it meant to be (2) handed? 🤔 ...since it can be thown?

Earlier drafts had it one handed, which made it higher damage than Thor’s, before adding an enchanters whetstone.

*edit* It’s still higher potential damage than Thor’s, but it limits shield use as it is in the final draft.

I wish I'd caught that on an earlier revision, too late now. Given the tight class restriction, Thor's was never a proper comparison. Compare instead to 2011's +2 Heavy Trident of Skewering. Given the power creep of everything else over the years, this feels more like a step backwards for Fighters.

Related Side Note: I don't understand Rare items being equivalent in stats to URs and above without Serious drawbacks, some seem really easy to overcome or not really drawbacks so much as restrictions that don't matter much.. Also it seems one or two tokens this set we forgot to account for the Enchanter's Whetstone's ability to boost some Rares higher than the UR+ Equivalent.

Which weapon is too good with the whetstone? The axe and the trident both seem in the right spot, outside of maybe the throwing the trident.

mmmmm <whispers> Turkey... Maybe not too good, but pretty good to make a +1 rare into a +2 over a UR even putting Smiting on the UR. I mean the Hammer and other more recent than Celestial Set URs start at +2 UR for Expanded Crit. It's a fun Flavor Token either way.

Also, back to OP... There are other 2H Thrown Weapons.
Uncommon: Iron Long Spear
Ultra Rare: +2 Long Spear of Dragonslaying
Not sure what else, but checkout TokenDB and see what you find!

I too am curious about the 1H/2H Weapon Bonuses when Thrown... Thrown Weapons are considered Melee and Missile weapons, yeah? If composite and not mutually exclusive, shouldn't they receive those bonuses too? Some Melee classes do have such a hard time Hitting even with High Dex and/or Ranged to Hit bonuses seems unfair to hinder them further by nerfing their damage output and class abilities when hurling a weapon rather than using a standard ranged weapon. Not to digress, but one could also argue that high STR classes can pull any bow further, for higher impact velocity but I'm okay with Mighty only being on those specific weapons. a +1 Mighty Crossbow and new Mighty Rare Bows in general would be mighty nice one day, just sayin...

Side Note... A Barbarian Artificer who carries a Trebuchet to battle.

The difference between a bow built for strength use and one for dexterity use is in how hard it is to pull back, not how far you can. Once you pull longer than the length of the arrow shaft, you don't have a stable platform for the arrow to fire from, plus the pure mechanics of how far one can pull their arm back bent at the elbow.

NightGod wrote:

Dougout wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Dougout wrote:

Fiddy wrote:

AAckeret wrote:

SnakeEyes (Eric) wrote: RARE: +1 Heavy Triton Trident - Is it meant to be (2) handed? 🤔 ...since it can be thown?

Earlier drafts had it one handed, which made it higher damage than Thor’s, before adding an enchanters whetstone.

*edit* It’s still higher potential damage than Thor’s, but it limits shield use as it is in the final draft.

I wish I'd caught that on an earlier revision, too late now. Given the tight class restriction, Thor's was never a proper comparison. Compare instead to 2011's +2 Heavy Trident of Skewering. Given the power creep of everything else over the years, this feels more like a step backwards for Fighters.

Related Side Note: I don't understand Rare items being equivalent in stats to URs and above without Serious drawbacks, some seem really easy to overcome or not really drawbacks so much as restrictions that don't matter much.. Also it seems one or two tokens this set we forgot to account for the Enchanter's Whetstone's ability to boost some Rares higher than the UR+ Equivalent.

Which weapon is too good with the whetstone? The axe and the trident both seem in the right spot, outside of maybe the throwing the trident.

mmmmm <whispers> Turkey... Maybe not too good, but pretty good to make a +1 rare into a +2 over a UR even putting Smiting on the UR. I mean the Hammer and other more recent than Celestial Set URs start at +2 UR for Expanded Crit. It's a fun Flavor Token either way.

Also, back to OP... There are other 2H Thrown Weapons.
Uncommon: Iron Long Spear
Ultra Rare: +2 Long Spear of Dragonslaying
Not sure what else, but checkout TokenDB and see what you find!

I too am curious about the 1H/2H Weapon Bonuses when Thrown... Thrown Weapons are considered Melee and Missile weapons, yeah? If composite and not mutually exclusive, shouldn't they receive those bonuses too? Some Melee classes do have such a hard time Hitting even with High Dex and/or Ranged to Hit bonuses seems unfair to hinder them further by nerfing their damage output and class abilities when hurling a weapon rather than using a standard ranged weapon. Not to digress, but one could also argue that high STR classes can pull any bow further, for higher impact velocity but I'm okay with Mighty only being on those specific weapons. a +1 Mighty Crossbow and new Mighty Rare Bows in general would be mighty nice one day, just sayin...

Side Note... A Barbarian Artificer who carries a Trebuchet to battle.

The difference between a bow built for strength use and one for dexterity use is in how hard it is to pull back, not how far you can. Once you pull longer than the length of the arrow shaft, you don't have a stable platform for the arrow to fire from, plus the pure mechanics of how far one can pull their arm back bent at the elbow.

Point granted, but a strong player would be able to more easily stabilize any bow through his grip, and use his muscles to sling rocks harder and faster than a weaker character (IRL of course) Any Bow in a Strong Hand, would have more accuracy than a wobbly hand, and a sling would have more damage.... also granted, we are playing in a game universe with very strict rules for a reason, not every real life situation is feasible or simple enough for the format of the game at hand... That was more just me musing "out loud" than suggesting we actually change the way bows work now.

Also the Barbarian two handed damage bonus states Melee weapons, so there would be no bonus on throwing.