Welcome, Guest
Username: Password: Remember me

TOPIC: This is it! Last Chance! Making Printing Plates Later Today!

This is it! Last Chance! Making Printing Plates Later Today! 1 year 3 months ago #61

Dergidan wrote: I agree that Lenses of Close Inspection is too good at rare. It's basically Lenses of Guided Strike. They don't help ranged rogues but for a melee rogue there's no real opportunity cost vs. the UR bracers or the new UR bead.

As-is, it has the same ability as a UR for a melee rogue. Last year we couldn't even get this ability in the more powerful neck slot. Look at Amulet of Flawsight, this token is strictly better in every way possible unless you're a ranged rogue.

I thought they were perfect when they only affected sneak and not crit.


Amulet of Flawsight was severely downgraded at the very end of token development last year, and the final version is underpowered to the point of it being difficult for me to imagine any Rogue build using it unless they don't own any other neck slot tokens. Amulet of Shock, Amulet of the Hero and Amulet of Vigor are all R neck slot items printed in the last 5 years which I'd use over Amulet of Flawsight. I'd even consider a couple of uncommons like Amulet of the Eel and Necklace of the Birch to be viable alternatives depending on the build.

I'm fine with that and have moved on, but I don't think it's fair to use Amulet of Flawsight as a basis for comparison on the Guided Strike ability.

Compare instead to Bracers of Guided Strike and Bead of Guided Strike. Both are UR, available to all classes, affect both Ranged and Melee attacks, and are arguably in slots which are either equally or less valuable than the eye slot.

I don't think it's unreasonable to have a far more restrictive (Rogue-only, Melee-only) version of the Guided Strike ability in the eye slot at Rare, and perhaps more importantly it's a massive boon to new Rogue players who will now have a way to use their class ability which doesn't involve a once-per-game ability which uses up one of the best slots in the game (neck) and provides no other benefit.

Jeff clarified in last year's token development that it's undesirable to have tokens which only affect Sneak Immunity and not Crit immunity.
I play Rogue. Occasionally I even play Rogue well.

Current build: tdcharactercreator.com/#/character/edit/54550c58-0964-4b14-af03-5c485ca2ef70
Last edit: by Iross.
The topic has been locked.

This is it! Last Chance! Making Printing Plates Later Today! 1 year 3 months ago #62

  • Picc
  • Picc's Avatar
  • Offline
  • 9th Level
  • Supporter
  • Remember when we were explorers?
  • Posts: 6821

Dougout wrote:

Picc wrote:

Wade Schwendemann (Dr. Uid) wrote:

Wayne Rhodes wrote:

Picc wrote:

Wayne Rhodes wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Wayne Rhodes wrote: I think the UR turkey leg should be put back at a +2, the rare turkey leg can take advantage of Enchanters Wheatstone and is on average better than the UR even with the extended crit range

Just remove the +1 from the rare Turkey leg to compensate?


I guess if the point is to make these as bad as possible.


That was the original joke wasn't it?

It’s already a garbage weapon, I’m just saying why make it worse. Turkey leg runs are probably still going to require the old non wheel anyways.


That seems unlikely. I think any turkey leg would work.

I would however be in favor of the "rare" turkey leg not working with the Enchanter's Whetstone


To make it so bad its funny or at least create the option for more jokes like with a turkey character on the damage wheel.

www.compart.com/en/unicode/U+1F983

Also Turkey leg strikes me as melee. Turkey wing for ranged maybe.


3 Turkey Symbol hits in a Room, Kills Monster Outright?


Honestly I wouldn't define it at all, just let the DM wing it as to what happens. Maybe the monster eats the turkey, maybe it chokes on a bone or falls asleep from all the carbs, maybe you have to listen to your uncle talk politics for an hour.
Semper Gumby, Always flexible.

Sartre sits in in a coffee shop and asks for a coffee without cream. The barista apologizes “Sorry, we don't have any cream. Can I offer you a coffee without milk instead?”
Last edit: by Picc.
The topic has been locked.

This is it! Last Chance! Making Printing Plates Later Today! 1 year 3 months ago #63

Iross wrote:

Dergidan wrote: I agree that Lenses of Close Inspection is too good at rare. It's basically Lenses of Guided Strike. They don't help ranged rogues but for a melee rogue there's no real opportunity cost vs. the UR bracers or the new UR bead.

As-is, it has the same ability as a UR for a melee rogue. Last year we couldn't even get this ability in the more powerful neck slot. Look at Amulet of Flawsight, this token is strictly better in every way possible unless you're a ranged rogue.

I thought they were perfect when they only affected sneak and not crit.


Amulet of Flawsight was severely downgraded at the very end of token development last year, and the final version is underpowered to the point of it being difficult for me to imagine any Rogue build using it unless they don't own any other neck slot tokens. Amulet of Shock, Amulet of the Hero and Amulet of Vigor are all R neck slot items printed in the last 5 years which I'd use over Amulet of Flawsight. I'd even consider a couple of uncommons like Amulet of the Eel and Necklace of the Birch to be viable alternatives depending on the build.

I'm fine with that and have moved on, but I don't think it's fair to use Amulet of Flawsight as a basis for comparison on the Guided Strike ability.

Compare instead to Bracers of Guided Strike and Bead of Guided Strike. Both are UR, available to all classes, affect both Ranged and Melee attacks, and are arguably in slots which are either equally or less valuable than the eye slot.

I don't think it's unreasonable to have a far more restrictive (Rogue-only, Melee-only) version of the Guided Strike ability in the eye slot at Rare, and perhaps more importantly it's a massive boon to new Rogue players who will now have a way to use their class ability which doesn't involve a once-per-game ability which uses up one of the best slots in the game (neck) and provides no other benefit.

Jeff clarified in last year's token development that it's undesirable to have tokens which only affect Sneak Immunity and not Crit immunity.

Maybe just take a mulligan on flawsite and put this one in neck instead of eyes? It really shouldn't be that good in the eye slot.
The topic has been locked.

This is it! Last Chance! Making Printing Plates Later Today! 1 year 3 months ago #64

Endgame wrote:

Iross wrote:

Dergidan wrote: I agree that Lenses of Close Inspection is too good at rare. It's basically Lenses of Guided Strike. They don't help ranged rogues but for a melee rogue there's no real opportunity cost vs. the UR bracers or the new UR bead.

As-is, it has the same ability as a UR for a melee rogue. Last year we couldn't even get this ability in the more powerful neck slot. Look at Amulet of Flawsight, this token is strictly better in every way possible unless you're a ranged rogue.

I thought they were perfect when they only affected sneak and not crit.


Amulet of Flawsight was severely downgraded at the very end of token development last year, and the final version is underpowered to the point of it being difficult for me to imagine any Rogue build using it unless they don't own any other neck slot tokens. Amulet of Shock, Amulet of the Hero and Amulet of Vigor are all R neck slot items printed in the last 5 years which I'd use over Amulet of Flawsight. I'd even consider a couple of uncommons like Amulet of the Eel and Necklace of the Birch to be viable alternatives depending on the build.

I'm fine with that and have moved on, but I don't think it's fair to use Amulet of Flawsight as a basis for comparison on the Guided Strike ability.

Compare instead to Bracers of Guided Strike and Bead of Guided Strike. Both are UR, available to all classes, affect both Ranged and Melee attacks, and are arguably in slots which are either equally or less valuable than the eye slot.

I don't think it's unreasonable to have a far more restrictive (Rogue-only, Melee-only) version of the Guided Strike ability in the eye slot at Rare, and perhaps more importantly it's a massive boon to new Rogue players who will now have a way to use their class ability which doesn't involve a once-per-game ability which uses up one of the best slots in the game (neck) and provides no other benefit.

Jeff clarified in last year's token development that it's undesirable to have tokens which only affect Sneak Immunity and not Crit immunity.

Maybe just take a mulligan on flawsite and put this one in neck instead of eyes? It really shouldn't be that good in the eye slot.


I think it's fine as it is and would rather it doesn't get changed, but since my biggest interest is making the effect readily available to new players then moving to neck slot would still do a good job of meeting that need.

One thing that does occur to me that if this were moved to neck then it would probably feel a bit crushing when newer players realise they will need to go and find an extra UR as a replacement to keep being able to consistently use their class ability when they reach the point of wanting to get their class Relic necklace.

Maybe needing to find specific URs is to be expected when a player is ready to upgrade to their class relic, I'm not sure.
I play Rogue. Occasionally I even play Rogue well.

Current build: tdcharactercreator.com/#/character/edit/54550c58-0964-4b14-af03-5c485ca2ef70
The topic has been locked.

This is it! Last Chance! Making Printing Plates Later Today! 1 year 3 months ago #65

Iross wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Iross wrote:

Dergidan wrote: I agree that Lenses of Close Inspection is too good at rare. It's basically Lenses of Guided Strike. They don't help ranged rogues but for a melee rogue there's no real opportunity cost vs. the UR bracers or the new UR bead.

As-is, it has the same ability as a UR for a melee rogue. Last year we couldn't even get this ability in the more powerful neck slot. Look at Amulet of Flawsight, this token is strictly better in every way possible unless you're a ranged rogue.

I thought they were perfect when they only affected sneak and not crit.


Amulet of Flawsight was severely downgraded at the very end of token development last year, and the final version is underpowered to the point of it being difficult for me to imagine any Rogue build using it unless they don't own any other neck slot tokens. Amulet of Shock, Amulet of the Hero and Amulet of Vigor are all R neck slot items printed in the last 5 years which I'd use over Amulet of Flawsight. I'd even consider a couple of uncommons like Amulet of the Eel and Necklace of the Birch to be viable alternatives depending on the build.

I'm fine with that and have moved on, but I don't think it's fair to use Amulet of Flawsight as a basis for comparison on the Guided Strike ability.

Compare instead to Bracers of Guided Strike and Bead of Guided Strike. Both are UR, available to all classes, affect both Ranged and Melee attacks, and are arguably in slots which are either equally or less valuable than the eye slot.

I don't think it's unreasonable to have a far more restrictive (Rogue-only, Melee-only) version of the Guided Strike ability in the eye slot at Rare, and perhaps more importantly it's a massive boon to new Rogue players who will now have a way to use their class ability which doesn't involve a once-per-game ability which uses up one of the best slots in the game (neck) and provides no other benefit.

Jeff clarified in last year's token development that it's undesirable to have tokens which only affect Sneak Immunity and not Crit immunity.

Maybe just take a mulligan on flawsite and put this one in neck instead of eyes? It really shouldn't be that good in the eye slot.


I think it's fine as it is and would rather it doesn't get changed, but since my biggest interest is making the effect readily available to new players then moving to neck slot would still do a good job of meeting that need.

One thing that does occur to me that if this were moved to neck then it would probably feel a bit crushing when newer players realise they will need to go and find an extra UR as a replacement to keep being able to consistently use their class ability when they reach the point of wanting to get their class Relic necklace.

Maybe needing to find specific URs is to be expected when a player is ready to upgrade to their class relic, I'm not sure.

If it’s crushing for a rogue to not get to use the class ability sneak, how does it feel for a Cleric to not get to turn undead every room?
The topic has been locked.

This is it! Last Chance! Making Printing Plates Later Today! 1 year 3 months ago #66

Endgame wrote:

Iross wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Iross wrote:

Dergidan wrote: I agree that Lenses of Close Inspection is too good at rare. It's basically Lenses of Guided Strike. They don't help ranged rogues but for a melee rogue there's no real opportunity cost vs. the UR bracers or the new UR bead.

As-is, it has the same ability as a UR for a melee rogue. Last year we couldn't even get this ability in the more powerful neck slot. Look at Amulet of Flawsight, this token is strictly better in every way possible unless you're a ranged rogue.

I thought they were perfect when they only affected sneak and not crit.


Amulet of Flawsight was severely downgraded at the very end of token development last year, and the final version is underpowered to the point of it being difficult for me to imagine any Rogue build using it unless they don't own any other neck slot tokens. Amulet of Shock, Amulet of the Hero and Amulet of Vigor are all R neck slot items printed in the last 5 years which I'd use over Amulet of Flawsight. I'd even consider a couple of uncommons like Amulet of the Eel and Necklace of the Birch to be viable alternatives depending on the build.

I'm fine with that and have moved on, but I don't think it's fair to use Amulet of Flawsight as a basis for comparison on the Guided Strike ability.

Compare instead to Bracers of Guided Strike and Bead of Guided Strike. Both are UR, available to all classes, affect both Ranged and Melee attacks, and are arguably in slots which are either equally or less valuable than the eye slot.

I don't think it's unreasonable to have a far more restrictive (Rogue-only, Melee-only) version of the Guided Strike ability in the eye slot at Rare, and perhaps more importantly it's a massive boon to new Rogue players who will now have a way to use their class ability which doesn't involve a once-per-game ability which uses up one of the best slots in the game (neck) and provides no other benefit.

Jeff clarified in last year's token development that it's undesirable to have tokens which only affect Sneak Immunity and not Crit immunity.

Maybe just take a mulligan on flawsite and put this one in neck instead of eyes? It really shouldn't be that good in the eye slot.


I think it's fine as it is and would rather it doesn't get changed, but since my biggest interest is making the effect readily available to new players then moving to neck slot would still do a good job of meeting that need.

One thing that does occur to me that if this were moved to neck then it would probably feel a bit crushing when newer players realise they will need to go and find an extra UR as a replacement to keep being able to consistently use their class ability when they reach the point of wanting to get their class Relic necklace.

Maybe needing to find specific URs is to be expected when a player is ready to upgrade to their class relic, I'm not sure.

If it’s crushing for a rogue to not get to use the class ability sneak, how does it feel for a Cleric to not get to turn undead every room?


Pretty different I would say, given that Clerics can still use either Restore Power, Restore Spell or one of a large number of spells instead, while Rogues have zero other abilities (other than Flank at L5) and almost all of their tokens specifically interact with Sneak Attack.
I play Rogue. Occasionally I even play Rogue well.

Current build: tdcharactercreator.com/#/character/edit/54550c58-0964-4b14-af03-5c485ca2ef70
The topic has been locked.

This is it! Last Chance! Making Printing Plates Later Today! 1 year 3 months ago #67

Endgame wrote: If it’s crushing for a rogue to not get to use the class ability sneak, how does it feel for a Cleric to not get to turn undead every room?


The fact that you're still trying to equate sneak attack and turn undead means you are either overtly trolling and 100% committed to the bit or have never looked at the cleric class card before. :P
Last edit: by Azzy.
The topic has been locked.

This is it! Last Chance! Making Printing Plates Later Today! 1 year 3 months ago #68

Iross wrote: Pretty different I would say, given that Clerics can still use either Restore Power, Restore Spell or one of a large number of spells instead, while Rogues have zero other abilities (other than Flank at L5) and almost all of their tokens specifically interact with Sneak Attack.


Can we take this to the Sneak Attack thread? I want to make sure Jeff can see all grammatical, spelling, and format issues in this thread as intended, thanks.

Phil
The topic has been locked.

This is it! Last Chance! Making Printing Plates Later Today! 1 year 3 months ago #69

Phil Norton wrote:

Iross wrote: Pretty different I would say, given that Clerics can still use either Restore Power, Restore Spell or one of a large number of spells instead, while Rogues have zero other abilities (other than Flank at L5) and almost all of their tokens specifically interact with Sneak Attack.


Can we take this to the Sneak Attack thread? I want to make sure Jeff can see all grammatical, spelling, and format issues in this thread as intended, thanks.

Phil


Fair point, thanks for that - you're quite right.
I play Rogue. Occasionally I even play Rogue well.

Current build: tdcharactercreator.com/#/character/edit/54550c58-0964-4b14-af03-5c485ca2ef70
The topic has been locked.

This is it! Last Chance! Making Printing Plates Later Today! 1 year 3 months ago #70

Which of the 3 Turkey Legs can be thrown? I'm assuming none of them?
Classes Played: Barbarian (46 times), Monk (45), Ranger (27), Rogue (21), Cleric (19), Fighter (12), Dwarf Fighter (9), Druid (7), Paladin (7), Bard (6), Elf Wizard (2), Wizard (2)
The topic has been locked.

This is it! Last Chance! Making Printing Plates Later Today! 1 year 3 months ago #71

Iross wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Iross wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Iross wrote:

Dergidan wrote: I agree that Lenses of Close Inspection is too good at rare. It's basically Lenses of Guided Strike. They don't help ranged rogues but for a melee rogue there's no real opportunity cost vs. the UR bracers or the new UR bead.

As-is, it has the same ability as a UR for a melee rogue. Last year we couldn't even get this ability in the more powerful neck slot. Look at Amulet of Flawsight, this token is strictly better in every way possible unless you're a ranged rogue.

I thought they were perfect when they only affected sneak and not crit.


Amulet of Flawsight was severely downgraded at the very end of token development last year, and the final version is underpowered to the point of it being difficult for me to imagine any Rogue build using it unless they don't own any other neck slot tokens. Amulet of Shock, Amulet of the Hero and Amulet of Vigor are all R neck slot items printed in the last 5 years which I'd use over Amulet of Flawsight. I'd even consider a couple of uncommons like Amulet of the Eel and Necklace of the Birch to be viable alternatives depending on the build.

I'm fine with that and have moved on, but I don't think it's fair to use Amulet of Flawsight as a basis for comparison on the Guided Strike ability.

Compare instead to Bracers of Guided Strike and Bead of Guided Strike. Both are UR, available to all classes, affect both Ranged and Melee attacks, and are arguably in slots which are either equally or less valuable than the eye slot.

I don't think it's unreasonable to have a far more restrictive (Rogue-only, Melee-only) version of the Guided Strike ability in the eye slot at Rare, and perhaps more importantly it's a massive boon to new Rogue players who will now have a way to use their class ability which doesn't involve a once-per-game ability which uses up one of the best slots in the game (neck) and provides no other benefit.

Jeff clarified in last year's token development that it's undesirable to have tokens which only affect Sneak Immunity and not Crit immunity.

Maybe just take a mulligan on flawsite and put this one in neck instead of eyes? It really shouldn't be that good in the eye slot.


I think it's fine as it is and would rather it doesn't get changed, but since my biggest interest is making the effect readily available to new players then moving to neck slot would still do a good job of meeting that need.

One thing that does occur to me that if this were moved to neck then it would probably feel a bit crushing when newer players realise they will need to go and find an extra UR as a replacement to keep being able to consistently use their class ability when they reach the point of wanting to get their class Relic necklace.

Maybe needing to find specific URs is to be expected when a player is ready to upgrade to their class relic, I'm not sure.

If it’s crushing for a rogue to not get to use the class ability sneak, how does it feel for a Cleric to not get to turn undead every room?


Pretty different I would say, given that Clerics can still use either Restore Power, Restore Spell or one of a large number of spells instead, while Rogues have zero other abilities (other than Flank at L5) and almost all of their tokens specifically interact with Sneak Attack.


Rogues have the puzzle box.
The topic has been locked.

This is it! Last Chance! Making Printing Plates Later Today! 1 year 3 months ago #72

should the "specials" of UR level or higher have stars around the boarders?
--
macXdmg
Monk of the Painda Order
Bard of the College of Sick Beats

Trade thread truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=61&id=253064#406060
The topic has been locked.
Time to create page: 0.215 seconds