TOPIC: Please take one last look? Can you find a error? Token Images!

Just curious... is there a reason the Quiver of the Elements can't change the damage to sonic?

edwin wrote:

kurtreznor wrote:

edwin wrote:

Aeroneus Martellus wrote:

edwin wrote:

Dougout wrote:

Iross wrote: Should Butterfly Cloak specify "If slain and not raised" to avoid odd token interactions and rules questions?

You mean we don't get a 10hp copy of ourselves when we Die, Get Resurrected, and Walk into the next room?

Recommend a rule clarification that push damage killing a character does not qualify for being slained and that if a TPK occurs it also does not work since the characters don't advance to the next room.

I was actually wondering about something similar. Say I’m slain in room 7 but am wearing this cloak. Do I actually survive?

Same for dying and being consumed for Lost One effect possibly.

There a number of cases where automatically coming back in the next room could be problematic.

A lot of this has already been answered.

It DOES work after a TPK. Anyone with the butterfly cloak comes back for the next room.
It DOES work even if your body is unavailable. You reappear in the next room, regardless of what killed you.
For push damage, it was not specified that I remember seeing, but would sincerely hope that it works if push damage killed you.
It DOES NOT work after room 7.

It avoids being problematic by being super simple; if you die in room 1-6, you reappear in the next room with 10hp.

At an in person event, I am stuck sticking around and unable to proceed to epilogue after a TPK with the party card?

That is a big discomfort and should be disseminated during coaching if anyone player is using the token.

You seem to be confusing some typical practical implications of a TPK status, with the rules.

You are allowed to leave the dungeon whenever you like, player killed or not, TPK or not. If you leave, you may not rejoin.

I do expect in the event of a TPK most players would choose to leave the dungeon - especially if it wasn't their first run.

However unless there is a rule saying the party can't continue to move through the rooms, there is no reason to create one because of a token that brings you back to life in the next room - in fact that would be a reason to reconsider any such rules existence.

edwin wrote: Thinking more about it, the Cloak may become a token that upsets a number of players that don't have it or don't equip it. Nothing like having a game end early for oneself and being told you have to sit around for the remainder of the time slot to get treasure. If I ran into this situation I would not give TD a second thought after that experience.

How is this any different than if you just die while other party members are alive?

Should we just make it a rule that as soon as one player is dead then the entire party immediately goes to epilogue? I say no.

Also - think of this situation in reverse: You're a new player, you paid your $75 or whatever to play TD. The entire party is killed in room 5. You want to go through the rest of the dungeon just to see the props and the NPCs, and maybe chat with the volunteers. However some guy with 18 more treasure than you grabs the party card and says: "game's over, except for treasure" and heads for the exit. That could also make people not want to give TD a second chance.

EvilJohn wrote: Even though it's probably way OP I'd love to see a ranged ranger weilding two chaos cannons.

Next year UR: Chaos Bayonet - slotless - you may use one handed blunder weapons for melee attacks

Wade Schwendemann (Dr. Uid) wrote: I'm fine with the staff. A reprint just makes it more accessible.
The deadshot set feels too good to also include +1 level. I'd like to see the belt at +2/+2, and maybe swap the goggles to +3 damage?

Agree on the belt - move it to +2 /+2.

On the Goggles, moving it to +3 damage means auto hitting spells get +3 damage, which is a big change from now. Maybe +2 hit, +1 damage? Or +2 hit and 100% hit incorporeal?

Wade Schwendemann (Dr. Uid) wrote: I'd still like the death knight mail to not include strength, but I know barbarians and rangers want it.

Maybe just reduce it to 1 Strength if the bonus must be strength?

Wade Schwendemann (Dr. Uid) wrote:
10 ioun stones and 10 charms feels like a LOT for completion tokens. Maybe some can become beads?

+1 Agree.

Wade Schwendemann (Dr. Uid) wrote:
Agree on Turkey legs as well Maybe 2 2 3 3 for the +1, and 3 3 4 4 for the +2?

Agree, though Honestly, could go even lower on the wheels.

EvilJohn wrote: Even though it's probably way OP I'd love to see a ranged ranger weilding two chaos cannons.

It's just not possible with current rules. It wouldn't be any more OP than Dual Wielding in Melee.

If We had a "Crossbow Expert" Feat in game, we could attack with a 1H weapon, then immediately attack with a hand crossbow we have at the ready.... With the Ambiguous Wording of the rule, This would allow Sword/ Hand Crossbow and 1H Ranged/Hand Crossbow Combos, or even Shooting the same Hand Crossbow Twice (according to most rulings... but this last part would be hard to execute in TD) This could be accomplished using slides akin to Monk's FoB.

But since we don't have that feat, we can't do more than 1 ranged weapon at a time.

My understanding is that Fighters can even use this Feat in DnD 5e Maybe it could be made into a Token Ability sometime in the future?

NightGod wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Dave wrote:

Dougout wrote:

Dave wrote:

bpsymington wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: If a party has 10x Harlax's Helpful Lamp do they get +20 to initiative (+2 per lamp), or +2 overall?

It's not a ruling or anything, but based on the wording I have to imagine that 10 lamps would give a party a total of +2 to INIT (NOT +2 per lamp).

I can see where the wording might lead some people to interpret it either way. However, a total of +2 to the party initiative is the only answer that really makes sense.

The Asterix for the Initiative note is only on the 10 lamp line and none of the lesser Synergies, I'm not sure how that can be misinterpreted., but the clarification will be in TokenDB for people who have that question.

You should be right and I hope you're right. An incorrect interpretation would be "If the party has 10 lamps, this token adds +2 to the party initiative. And if that applies to everyone's token, it adds up to +20 initiative." As stated, the token is correctly worded. But if it's possible to misinterpret, someone probably will. Plus, on the 10 lamp line it also says 5 hp, which in this case does apply to each individual and not to the entire party. Anyway, I'm not recommending any changes, just making an observation.

I would say the obvious reading is that, with 10 lamps, each player gets 5hp and adds 2 initiative, for a total party bonus of 50hp and 20 initiative. If you have fewer than 10 lamps, each player only receives HP.

With the asterisk, I would assume it means +2 overall, especially since initiative isn't individual like HP is.

Yea, there's no way it's going to be Hit Points and +20 initiative for a slotless Token. I'm surprised anyone would think that.

+2 Turkey Leg

So, I compare this most closely to +1 Mighty Sling. Both weapons are infinite ranged uses for all classes that add STR modifier to damage. Turkey Leg is scaled down Thor's Hammer (as Fiddy has said at various times, Dex requirement is pretty meaningless for using this in ranged as you need that Dex to hit anything, anyway, at least until 2022 tokens add monster ranged to hit bonuses). It's not comparable to +3 Hammer as that weak sauce weapon doesn't have returning.

vs +1 Sling - More damage, more to hit, bigger crit range, can be a melee weapon if don't have anything better. I guess that somewhat fills in that the game doesn't have the greatest ranged weapons, and the problem of classes hitting with "only" a +2 weapon is less of an issue with all of the ranged to hit bonuses in 2022. +1 Sling is only an UR where this is a relic. It's certainly not as good as Thor's being -3 to hit and almost -3.5 in damage if you have 20+ Dex, but it has no other feature missing from Thor's.

Common potion of silver swim feels a bit off name wise. Maybe: “Potion of Swimming Silver”.

The uncommon ring of the ranger might be better named Archer’s Ring?

Cloak of the Scoundrel is listed as Fighter only. It should probably just be Fighter.

Rob F wrote: Yea, there's no way it's going to be Hit Points and +20 initiative for a slotless Token. I'm surprised anyone would think that.

The Charm of Awareness states "In addition, it adds +1 to the party’s initiative rolls." It's not too hard to make the jump that each lamp in the party would add +2, for a total of +20.

But I already pointed out how bonkers adding initiative was in the last thread. +2 initiative is a cool bonus, but it needs clarification.

Grizwald wrote:

Rob F wrote: Yea, there's no way it's going to be Hit Points and +20 initiative for a slotless Token. I'm surprised anyone would think that.

The Charm of Awareness states "In addition, it adds +1 to the party’s initiative rolls." It's not too hard to make the jump that each lamp in the party would add +2, for a total of +20.

But I already pointed out how bonkers adding initiative was in the last thread. +2 initiative is a cool bonus, but it needs clarification.

Using that same token as an indicator for wording, the awareness token explicitly says it’s stacks on the token text, the lamp does not.

BeLinda Mathie wrote:

Marc D wrote:

Daniel White wrote: Pointing out again that "HH" is neo-Nazi for "Heil Hitler." Might be better off with "Harlax lamps" instead of "HH lamps" on the token text.

Quoted for emphasis. This is not an association to court even tangentially.

Do we think “HHLs in the Party” would be sufficiently different than “HH lamps”? The “HHL” abbreviation shouldn’t be too confusing as it is right below the token name, and it avoids having “HH” split out in a way that could give anyone the wrong idea.

Could Harlax's Helpful Lamp just be called Harlax's Lamp? Would remove the "HH" connotation and give enough room to shift the text up to clarify how much initiative gets added.