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TOPIC: 2022 Rare Final Kind of

2022 Rare Final Kind of 8 months 3 weeks ago #61

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Azzy wrote:

Picc wrote:

Azzy wrote:

Iross wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

NightGod wrote:

Jeff Martin wrote: Thanks all! If we want to replace the UR Guide Strike then that should take another UR to move the power to another slot. Remind me next year to explore that. Thanks.

Perhaps pull one of the three items adding to ranged this year (belt, gloves, specs) and replace with the guided strike substitute?


The gloves if any of them go.


I agree with this - if any UR Guided Strike item does happen, then the gloves would be the best choice to remove. Sniper Spectacles were one of the most asked-for reprints after Earcuff of Orbits, and a dedicated Ranged belt is something which is needed.


Gloves of guided strike seems pretty legit.

I would be ok with this from a balance perspective but still think it's too soon for a guided strike reprint.


Agreed, that's why it should be the same/similar effect on a different token in a different slot and thus not a reprint.


While I would consider gloves of guided strike ok from a blance perspective, I would also consider them a sideways reprint in the same vain as charm/ring of spell swapping.

What I'm really getting out of all this though is that "guided strike" is a popular power, but that people calling for that power in a new slot hate the "bracers". I doubt its price since they are still available at sub 200. That makes me think that maybe it's to soon to consider moving the power to any slot other than bracers though.
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2022 Rare Final Kind of 8 months 3 weeks ago #62

If Shin Slot ever gets URs and non DamageReduction abilities, Then Guided Strike, among other abilities, would be a good candidate to throw in there. (UR Shins could appear in boxes multiple years where the Rares are only yearly)
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2022 Rare Final Kind of 8 months 3 weeks ago #63

Dougout wrote: If Shin Slot ever gets URs and non DamageReduction abilities, Then Guided Strike, among other abilities, would be a good candidate to throw in there. (UR Shins could appear in boxes multiple years where the Rares are only yearly)


I think putting one of the most powerful effects in the game in a slot with the least powerful effects in the game would be an odd choice.

Puttinf the Ring of Spell Storing or next UR Treasure Enhancer there would feel weird to me.

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Last edit: by Matthew Hayward.

2022 Rare Final Kind of 8 months 3 weeks ago #64

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Dougout wrote: If Shin Slot ever gets URs and non DamageReduction abilities, Then Guided Strike, among other abilities, would be a good candidate to throw in there. (UR Shins could appear in boxes multiple years where the Rares are only yearly)


I think putting one of the most powerful effects in the game in a slot with the least powerful effects in the game would be an odd choice.

Puttinf the Ring of Spell Storing or next UR Treasure Enhancer there would feel weird to me.


Make it a Relic/Legendary Shin or give it a drawback then if that's too powerful an ability for a UR Shin.... I'm not saying this is something that has to happen or even should happen, but if we are thinking about and planning for future expansion and build diversity, It's a logical step to eventually start beefing up what goes there by lifting the "Treasure box Rare Only" restriction.

I could See Greaves one day getting Free Movement, +Saves, etc... because there's only so many Elements available to DR.
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Last edit: by Dougout.

2022 Rare Final Kind of 8 months 3 weeks ago #65

Picc wrote: While I would consider gloves of guided strike ok from a blance perspective, I would also consider them a sideways reprint in the same vain as charm/ring of spell swapping.

What I'm really getting out of all this though is that "guided strike" is a popular power, but that people calling for that power in a new slot hate the "bracers". I doubt its price since they are still available at sub 200. That makes me think that maybe it's to soon to consider moving the power to any slot other than bracers though.


It isn't about hating the bracers so much as it's about a primary class ability being frequently locked behind them. In the past when it was "oh, we can either use our class ability or get an UR IS slot expander" it was one thing, though now we're at the point of "you can use this wrist legendary, but if you do then you have to flip a coin at the start of each combat to see if your class feature or class legendary work". Imagine if the new legendary instead was written as: "You get +4 charms, but flip a coin each combat to see if you can use bard song" and that's about where we're at.

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2022 Rare Final Kind of 8 months 3 weeks ago #66

Ok, so the rogue GS discussion thread is a reason not to only read the UR and transmute threads.

1) I agree with LRoss and Nightshade and others. 100%. Double underline. As-is it's a good red token. I can see a UR ranged build debate including it. (Personally, I'd probably stay with the bracers as to-hit at ranged is precious.) My first instinct was for it be -2 for melee also, but the analysis in this thread sold me.
2) I disagree with moving the Lenses of Sharpness to bracers. That doesn't solve the problem of the Charm Bracelets for Rogues. And the spot it's in is brilliant as it makes it less OP. If we want it to be easy, put it in the shins.
2) I strongly disagree with moving GS out of bracers as a UR at the last minute. But that gets to the "everything should be slotless" vs "build decisions" debate being held elsewhere. (Honestly, I think we shouldn't address GS elsewhere at UR+ for a couple years.)

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Last edit: by Lequinian.

2022 Rare Final Kind of 8 months 3 weeks ago #67

I just spent 3 years building (or spent $1000+ on) his Legendary that has Crit on 16-20, but I can't crit anything because there's only 1 item in the game with unrestricted Guided Strike, and the other Item's slots are filled.... It's a dilema... this is why I bought 2 Guided Strikes Bracers for my main two builds...

What I've observed based on Token release history... We Get a Legendary Option for the Bracer Slot that Expands Charms, Forcing us into choosing new Hotness, or Old and Awesome, Then in a year or two, we can have Hotness with New Awesome.

Everyone freaking out over losing Guided Strike in Bracers, Knowing that Jeff is looking to Provide us with an alternate Slot UR choice for the ability in the future will get something eventually.

The Cycle is usually:
1. Thing People Want comes out, becomes Standard / BiS
2. Thing People Want equally comes out, Forces a Choice for a few Years, though Clearly the new item is BiS
3. Thing People Wanted gets functional Reprint in another Slot complimentary to the item which Replaced the Original. Everyone is happier.
4. Repeat.
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Last edit: by Dougout.

2022 Rare Final Kind of 8 months 3 weeks ago #68

Azzy wrote:

Picc wrote: While I would consider gloves of guided strike ok from a blance perspective, I would also consider them a sideways reprint in the same vain as charm/ring of spell swapping.

What I'm really getting out of all this though is that "guided strike" is a popular power, but that people calling for that power in a new slot hate the "bracers". I doubt its price since they are still available at sub 200. That makes me think that maybe it's to soon to consider moving the power to any slot other than bracers though.


It isn't about hating the bracers so much as it's about a primary class ability being frequently locked behind them. In the past when it was "oh, we can either use our class ability or get an UR IS slot expander" it was one thing, though now we're at the point of "you can use this wrist legendary, but if you do then you have to flip a coin at the start of each combat to see if your class feature or class legendary work". Imagine if the new legendary instead was written as: "You get +4 charms, but flip a coin each combat to see if you can use bard song" and that's about where we're at.


I play HF, so my class feature is irrelevant in VTD 100% of the time. (HFs have high to-hits and can re-roll once per combat.)

Losing sneak 1 room / run is not the end of the world. Some invested Rogues have come out and said they'd do the legendary. And not all dungeons will always have an immune room (right Jeff, right?).

The Lenses of Sharpness are a unique answer that don't obsolete the bracers. Gloves of Guided Strike this quickly after the Bracers basically get rid of build decisions and make things mush. IMHO. YMMV.

(I disagree with replacing bracers with Luna's for wife's build and challenged in another post, but I digress.)

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2022 Rare Final Kind of 8 months 3 weeks ago #69

Lequinian wrote:

Azzy wrote:

Picc wrote: While I would consider gloves of guided strike ok from a blance perspective, I would also consider them a sideways reprint in the same vain as charm/ring of spell swapping.

What I'm really getting out of all this though is that "guided strike" is a popular power, but that people calling for that power in a new slot hate the "bracers". I doubt its price since they are still available at sub 200. That makes me think that maybe it's to soon to consider moving the power to any slot other than bracers though.


It isn't about hating the bracers so much as it's about a primary class ability being frequently locked behind them. In the past when it was "oh, we can either use our class ability or get an UR IS slot expander" it was one thing, though now we're at the point of "you can use this wrist legendary, but if you do then you have to flip a coin at the start of each combat to see if your class feature or class legendary work". Imagine if the new legendary instead was written as: "You get +4 charms, but flip a coin each combat to see if you can use bard song" and that's about where we're at.


I play HF, so my class feature is irrelevant in VTD 100% of the time. (HFs have high to-hits and can re-roll once per combat.)

Losing sneak 1 room / run is not the end of the world. Some invested Rogues have come out and said they'd do the legendary. And not all dungeons will always have an immune room (right Jeff, right?).

The Lenses of Sharpness are a unique answer that don't obsolete the bracers. Gloves of Guided Strike this quickly after the Bracers basically get rid of build decisions and make things mush. IMHO. YMMV.

(I disagree with replacing bracers with Luna's for wife's build and challenged in another post, but I digress.)


Even with to hit in the 20+ range on my Fighter builds, I do miss and that re-roll is useful. You must have good luck in rolling attack to never have to use it.
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2022 Rare Final Kind of 8 months 3 weeks ago #70

Dougout wrote:

Lequinian wrote:
I play HF, so my class feature is irrelevant in VTD 100% of the time. (HFs have high to-hits and can re-roll once per combat.)


Even with to hit in the 20+ range on my Fighter builds, I do miss and that re-roll is useful. You must have good luck in rolling attack to never have to use it.


Ok, slight hyperbole. :) With Questors and a Bard generally hit 90% w/o reroll, but an innkeeper with say 35 AC is a pain.

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Last edit: by Lequinian.

2022 Rare Final Kind of 8 months 3 weeks ago #71

Lequinian wrote:

Dougout wrote:

Lequinian wrote:
I play HF, so my class feature is irrelevant in VTD 100% of the time. (HFs have high to-hits and can re-roll once per combat.)


Even with to hit in the 20+ range on my Fighter builds, I do miss and that re-roll is useful. You must have good luck in rolling attack to never have to use it.


Ok, slight hyperbole. :) With Questors and a Bard generally hit 90% w/o reroll, but an innkeeper with say 35 AC is a pain.


It might be because both of my v4 runs were double-down ones, but that innkeeper felt like the toughest fight I've ever had in TD, including end of arc combats. I'm worried and concerned by the true identity of this supposed "innkeeper", who held power on the level of Cavadar itself or something equally terrifying....
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Last edit: by Iross.

2022 Rare Final Kind of 8 months 3 weeks ago #72

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Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

bpsymington wrote:

NightGod wrote:

bpsymington wrote: As a wizard I am not sure of the melee "hands" rules. I equip a staff of focus - does that mean I cannot use the Captain's Cup, since I am using a two-handed weapon and therefore don't have a melle off-hand slot?

And didn't the Cup used to be a save bonus, not AC? Why make it weaker?

Jeff mentioned the cup has been reworked to be slotless, but can only be worn if you don't wear any URs.


Ah. No thanks, then.


Also yes, you can never use an off hand item with your Staff of Focus unless it's a ranged off hand item as your staff is in your melee slot and takes both hand spots


Since the Staffs are Ranged only, they will equip in both Ranged hand slots.
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