TOPIC: 2022 Ultra Rare Token Images

macxdmg wrote: The chaos cannon and the mage staff seem juxtaposed in their power, they both add ranged damage, they both have force power, one is open to all classes and one handed which generally lowers the power, while the other is a very specific class token, that allows a small benefit (scrolls do not benefit from ranged damage bonuses for example unless I'm wrong) and the powers are highly disparate.

When the chaos cannon was two handed and higher power it seemed more reasonable though there wasn't an Ultra Rare staff in that set.

When staves were a "Trial" at common and uncommon it seemed fine that they were low power (now even lower).

I missed a cycle of design it looks like, and while I don't play wizard, this looks like a disappointment of a token design cycle. Having a decision between tanking up int and dex to make this type of combat possible seemed like a good position with respect to focus and spell splitting. Constitution and the mage medallions / charm solution was the other build. This is no longer the case, and no longer a trial, and this feels like a medallion of mystic mouth situation with "Wands are never turned in," which was an experiment that was not called out as such. Lets see a C & UC mystic staves rethought as an experiment, with a hypothesis and trial information. In that situation if the experiment shows they're reasonable and not way under/over powered then try again with Rare staves and re-evaluate, make sure the purpose (what is the purpose, to give a different weapon other than a staff of focus to wizards) is met in the design.

To the "Glass cannon" design philosophy (as a purpose) from last year, these should be dex / int based weapons, make a wizard really choose not to take their kilt (sorry those without) with con and rather as dex because they need the hit bonus. If there is a UR, Force seems legit, and because int helps with to hit then maybe we see some more int bonuses in the set instead of so much generic ranged help. I actually think the elf wizard should be more upset with this change, they went from having a slight advantage to hit with a slight disadvantage to damage (when dex to hit and int to damage was a thing) to being just straight disadvantaged with this new concept. Even other ranged classes need to think about two stats generally (Gloves of the flying fist say what) when they think about ranged, and either need to find a mighty weapon or toss rocks, or their bows are so over powered they don't need to worry about ranged damage.

I could see two prospects with this weapon as is, a backup ranged weapon, if that's the case lets call it out and it's okay that it seems weak, or a new build option. In the backup case, lets get more scroll enhancers in the set. In the new build option this is an unsatisfying weapon as it is, in a set with no bonus to intelligence.

So first thing to mark here is that a spell cast "as a scroll" is not modified by any modifiers, spell or scroll. (Yes, a spell "as a scroll" is not boosted by scroll modifying tokens)

The Mage Staff as designed currently becomes a mid level ranged weapon that is the item of last resort for a Wizard out of spells. And a trigger for Elf Wizard to cast alterness.

If the design is to give Wizards a final backup for when they run out of spells leave the +INT bonus to hit and make the attack count as a spell. Drop the damage down to 1d4 from there and it's worse than any existing spell but keeps the Wizard at an expected level of damage when out of spells.

Currently it's going to drop the Wizard by 20+ damage per turn in a spellcasting build.

Belt of Fearless is way too powerful for a UR. Would probably reduce the dmg to +2.

Harlax's Helpful Lamp is kinda meh not compared to the initial version. I think there is a middle ground somewhere.

Ioun Stone Amethyst Orb still seems really powerful compared to Lotus Bowels.

Bead of Jealous Heroism still feels like just +1 level with no penalty for many that will not have a slot expander.

Are Merfolk know for ranged attacks? (Gloves of the Merfolk)

Butterfly Cloak is in a nice place now.

Interested in the new slot the Badge of Beading is using.

Nice to see a Focus item added back.

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

macxdmg wrote: The chaos cannon and the mage staff seem juxtaposed in their power, they both add ranged damage, they both have force power, one is open to all classes and one handed which generally lowers the power, while the other is a very specific class token, that allows a small benefit (scrolls do not benefit from ranged damage bonuses for example unless I'm wrong) and the powers are highly disparate.

When the chaos cannon was two handed and higher power it seemed more reasonable though there wasn't an Ultra Rare staff in that set.

When staves were a "Trial" at common and uncommon it seemed fine that they were low power (now even lower).

I missed a cycle of design it looks like, and while I don't play wizard, this looks like a disappointment of a token design cycle. Having a decision between tanking up int and dex to make this type of combat possible seemed like a good position with respect to focus and spell splitting. Constitution and the mage medallions / charm solution was the other build. This is no longer the case, and no longer a trial, and this feels like a medallion of mystic mouth situation with "Wands are never turned in," which was an experiment that was not called out as such. Lets see a C & UC mystic staves rethought as an experiment, with a hypothesis and trial information. In that situation if the experiment shows they're reasonable and not way under/over powered then try again with Rare staves and re-evaluate, make sure the purpose (what is the purpose, to give a different weapon other than a staff of focus to wizards) is met in the design.

To the "Glass cannon" design philosophy (as a purpose) from last year, these should be dex / int based weapons, make a wizard really choose not to take their kilt (sorry those without) with con and rather as dex because they need the hit bonus. If there is a UR, Force seems legit, and because int helps with to hit then maybe we see some more int bonuses in the set instead of so much generic ranged help. I actually think the elf wizard should be more upset with this change, they went from having a slight advantage to hit with a slight disadvantage to damage (when dex to hit and int to damage was a thing) to being just straight disadvantaged with this new concept. Even other ranged classes need to think about two stats generally (Gloves of the flying fist say what) when they think about ranged, and either need to find a mighty weapon or toss rocks, or their bows are so over powered they don't need to worry about ranged damage.

I could see two prospects with this weapon as is, a backup ranged weapon, if that's the case lets call it out and it's okay that it seems weak, or a new build option. In the backup case, lets get more scroll enhancers in the set. In the new build option this is an unsatisfying weapon as it is, in a set with no bonus to intelligence.

So first thing to mark here is that a spell cast "as a scroll" is not modified by any modifiers, spell or scroll. (Yes, a spell "as a scroll" is not boosted by scroll modifying tokens)

The Mage Staff as designed currently becomes a mid level ranged weapon that is the item of last resort for a Wizard out of spells. And a trigger for Elf Wizard to cast alterness.

If the design is to give Wizards a final backup for when they run out of spells leave the +INT bonus to hit and make the attack count as a spell. Drop the damage down to 1d4 from there and it's worse than any existing spell but keeps the Wizard at an expected level of damage when out of spells.

Currently it's going to drop the Wizard by 20+ damage per turn in a spellcasting build.

How about half the spell damage bonus and don't lower the damage wheel? That is still strong, but clearly weaker than your regular spells.

Joshua Long wrote: Harlax's Helpful Lamp is kinda meh not compared to the initial version. I think there is a middle ground somewhere.

Currently, it is basically a slotless Charm of Synergy at half the bonus. Having it be slotless seems worth the power decrease.

Badge of Beading - I'm glad this has a slot now. With this as the first item for it, it seems like the badge slot is going to be very powerful.

Bead of Jealous Heroism - Unless there's a change to how many beads can be equipped without any slot expanders, the negative for this isn't really much. Compared to Ring of Fateful Heroism it doesn't seem like a big enough penalty for a UR level bump. Maybe -1 Ioun Stone?

Belt of the Fearless - Agree with others this is too powerful.

Death Knight Mail - The -2 to Darkrift feels like too much of a swing in the other direction from the previous version.

Harlax's Helpful Lamp - I like this a little more in the previous revision. +1 for every two of them feels a little bit weak compared to a UR like Charm of Synergy. Although the lamp is slotless so maybe that balances it out? I'd still get one as-is.

Lucky Kilt - Glad this is part of the Lucky Set.

Slot Expanders - Three in a single set is a lot. Could Charm Bracelets get pushed off to next year and a transmute path for the Earcuff to more +IS be made instead?

kurtreznor wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

macxdmg wrote: The chaos cannon and the mage staff seem juxtaposed in their power, they both add ranged damage, they both have force power, one is open to all classes and one handed which generally lowers the power, while the other is a very specific class token, that allows a small benefit (scrolls do not benefit from ranged damage bonuses for example unless I'm wrong) and the powers are highly disparate.

When the chaos cannon was two handed and higher power it seemed more reasonable though there wasn't an Ultra Rare staff in that set.

When staves were a "Trial" at common and uncommon it seemed fine that they were low power (now even lower).

I missed a cycle of design it looks like, and while I don't play wizard, this looks like a disappointment of a token design cycle. Having a decision between tanking up int and dex to make this type of combat possible seemed like a good position with respect to focus and spell splitting. Constitution and the mage medallions / charm solution was the other build. This is no longer the case, and no longer a trial, and this feels like a medallion of mystic mouth situation with "Wands are never turned in," which was an experiment that was not called out as such. Lets see a C & UC mystic staves rethought as an experiment, with a hypothesis and trial information. In that situation if the experiment shows they're reasonable and not way under/over powered then try again with Rare staves and re-evaluate, make sure the purpose (what is the purpose, to give a different weapon other than a staff of focus to wizards) is met in the design.

To the "Glass cannon" design philosophy (as a purpose) from last year, these should be dex / int based weapons, make a wizard really choose not to take their kilt (sorry those without) with con and rather as dex because they need the hit bonus. If there is a UR, Force seems legit, and because int helps with to hit then maybe we see some more int bonuses in the set instead of so much generic ranged help. I actually think the elf wizard should be more upset with this change, they went from having a slight advantage to hit with a slight disadvantage to damage (when dex to hit and int to damage was a thing) to being just straight disadvantaged with this new concept. Even other ranged classes need to think about two stats generally (Gloves of the flying fist say what) when they think about ranged, and either need to find a mighty weapon or toss rocks, or their bows are so over powered they don't need to worry about ranged damage.

I could see two prospects with this weapon as is, a backup ranged weapon, if that's the case lets call it out and it's okay that it seems weak, or a new build option. In the backup case, lets get more scroll enhancers in the set. In the new build option this is an unsatisfying weapon as it is, in a set with no bonus to intelligence.

So first thing to mark here is that a spell cast "as a scroll" is not modified by any modifiers, spell or scroll. (Yes, a spell "as a scroll" is not boosted by scroll modifying tokens)

The Mage Staff as designed currently becomes a mid level ranged weapon that is the item of last resort for a Wizard out of spells. And a trigger for Elf Wizard to cast alterness.

If the design is to give Wizards a final backup for when they run out of spells leave the +INT bonus to hit and make the attack count as a spell. Drop the damage down to 1d4 from there and it's worse than any existing spell but keeps the Wizard at an expected level of damage when out of spells.

Currently it's going to drop the Wizard by 20+ damage per turn in a spellcasting build.

How about half the spell damage bonus and don't lower the damage wheel? That is still strong, but clearly weaker than your regular spells.

That's about where it currently lands with the +Ranged and +Spelldamage mixes in play.

I'd like to see it gain the bonus of all of my tokens like any other class if it's going to be my "after spells are gone" item.

Just make it cast as a spell and that resolves the whole thing.

Badge of Beading

Call it Medal of Beading and call slot Medal slot to get around the badge confusion? I'm sure someone will confuse medal and medallion, but we can ignore those people. Note that the new slots immediately becomes a power slot, which, I guess, given the power progression in this game, is consistent.

Belt of the Fearless

+2 to hit is half a +4 STR effect. +5 damage is half a +10 STR effect. Half of +14 STR is Surtr's.

I'm good for +2 to hit and +2 to damage for ranged attacks (or missile attacks or physical ranged or whatever). In high level missile builds, Reflex save will be extremely high through zero effort, so the +2 to hit is pretty much +4 DEX. I run Viper Strike Belt in some missile builds, which is only sad, pathetic +3 DEX (as, amazingly enough, not try to get set bonus in missile builds).

Butterfly Cloak

Making something better does not necessarily make it more interesting. This is Fred's point with Chaos Cannon. Now that this looks like Shadowskin, it will always be compared against Shadowskin. It actually becomes less unique by gaining an additional ability. Shadowskin is also just better (not trying to suggest making this stronger).

Uniqueness. How many back slot tokens increase DEX? Yup, zero. I run into this all the time when trying to squeeze one more +to hit in missile builds. Cloak of the Elm may only be 50% of the Con boosting back slots in the game, but it serves a very different purpose from saves cloaks much of the time. Double down on the uniqueness of this UR and have it be rez effect and +2 DEX (yes, +2 DEX is fine, not every new UR needs to be old relic in power).

Death Knight Mail

I'm perfectly fine with not expanding this set right now, as it seems an easy set to reprint someday. This can just be some other armor. Because I'm tired of "and, shirt slot locked with Shirt of Shielding for this dungeon", how about Orca Mail: +6 AC, immune to Retribution damage (orcas eat sharks, can slough other things)?

Ioun Stone Amethyst Orb

I like the idea, perhaps too complicated this time around. I might change to Cleric/Druid "0 lvl heal Spells may choose add'l target". Splitting heal spells is really good, effectively improving healing in a bunch of cases more than another +4 or whatever.

Ioun Stone Fluorite Sphere

So, I don't buy the "there's not enough stuff for melee" argument even changing Belt of the Fearless. Even if I did, I would get rid of Mage Staff of Power and go with a melee weapon, like a trident, maybe like a +2 Heavy Trident of Skewering reprint. The built in Shirt of Shielding above would be a thing for melee, as well.

This is just painful. There are two participation tokens that give bonuses to melee damage in addition to Infernal Fire Prism, +STR IS. Sure, Banshee exists and making a token just like it is lazy. Spicy but unlikely to fly I'm sure is: Ioun Stone Double Pyramid - Missile attacks & 0 lvl dmg Spells +1 target.

Or, +2 to healing and +2 to being healed (by spells) sounded fine to me.

Mage Staff of Power

Why didn't just reprint Staff of Power last year? Can we get away from "Alertness as a scroll"? If must see how this mechanic works at UR, at least drop that. It's an UR, can just be +2 Mage Staff so that someone hits more often.

Or, save the concept and have a melee weapon. Maybe a barbarian/fighter trident is too narrow. Maybe compound 1h trident that does double damage to marine creatures would have wider class list.

The ship may have sailed on this, but what about:

Harlax's Helpful Lamp: Choose one at start: +1saves, +5hp, +2hit, +2damage

The numbers might not be quite right, perhaps too high, but that would feel more like a "coaching" buff to me, as in "where does my build need a little help?"

Badge of Beading: Creating a new token type just to add more beads doesn't really change this from being slotless. It's now the only badge in the badge spot. If a new token type is going to be added, there needs to be support for it at all levels. Even if there's just a common one that's +1hp. It feels very pay to win. Just increase the number of beads we can equip.

Bead of Jealous Heroism: No real drawback, unless you purchase the Badge of Beading. If the number of beads is increased, then it has a drawback and transmuting it is worthwhile.

Belt of the Fearless: This seems way to powerful for a UR. It gives way better numbers than any other UR belt. This is really more into legendary range. +2/+2 Ranged seems better. +2 to hit over Arcane Belt, but no free spell. Or make it a functional reprint of Celestial Girdle. "+2 to melee damage and grants immunity to fear effects" Then it would truly be a belt of the fearless.

Ring of Havoc: This is in a weird spot. Ring of the Drake is +2 to everything. What about adding "negates the 50% miss chance attacking Incorporeal creatures"? Could get a bit wordy with the transmute tokens.

Dave wrote: Badge of Beading - (Already asked) Is Badge of Nobility also considered a badge for purpose of filling this new slot?

Harlax's Helpful Lamp - Another synergy item. Kind of feels right since he's the one who got me to join the synergy runs.

It would be a bummer to have to choose between Badge of Nobility and Badge of Beading (or future badges). The +1 AC is not anywhere near the UR level of Beading, so it would be a no-brainer--but it would be unfortunate to never use something that was meant to be a nice, if small, perk for reaching 9th Level. Maybe just keep the Badge of Nobility slotless (as it currently indicates on the token)?

I would love to have another synergy item, and certainly feels fitting to have that as part of the Harlax token. I know that the Team Synergy folks (and most other veteran players) would gobble these up. That said--it does feel like a weak UR for someone new to get in a 10-pack. Getting 1 extra hp isn't going to be all that exciting for a new player.

PLEASE remember the Belt of the Brave exists.

If you are suggesting a +2/+2 Ranged UR belt when a +2/+2 Melee RARE belt exists that's just bad design.

If it swaps over to Ranged it needs to be better than the existing Rare Melee belt.

We've already nerfed several UR tokens into rare in 2021, let's not go the other direction for 2022

Endgame wrote: Fluorite Sphere
This is a “do everything” item which can be a problem, and is pure creep over infernal fire prism. Maybe make it a Healing token with +2 to Healing spells and +2 received Healing?

I'm a fan of a healing focused Ioun Stone. especially with a sort of synergistic effect in the year with Harlax's lamp.