TOPIC: Suggestion: GP on more items

Getting DP from other people is easy. Getting rid of excess AP should not be hard. At current prices, very roughly, one AP is worth four DP. I'm guessing that someone would trade like 60x DP for 20x AP.

While I don't need either one, I suppose I could be convinced to make that trade, though it would make far more sense if doing some other trade at the same time.

Anyway, my situation is hardly the norm, yet a different way of restoring value to DP and MS, which both have awful value currently, from just increasing recipes to where they need like 75 of each to drain supply is decrease the supply that occurs through the 8k bundles.

The proposal of replacing a transmute into these trade goods with a slot of gold (without increasing gold in total) should do that. Far too many types turn into DP. Far too many total tokens turn into MS and PS. PS is only in demand right now off of being as bad as the other two because recipes are consuming much greater quantities, well, maybe also the 2021 rare neck slot items can decrease supply in a way that isn't usually the case.

I'm in favour of breaking the GP up among more tokens without raising the amount of GP in the set.

In terms of dealing with the glut of certain trade goods, I'd like to bring up the idea of ports again. For example if the community says there is a glut of planks, TD HQ opens a limited time transmute recipe. Something like 2 planks for 1 stone. Once enough planks have been turned in/stones sent out to equalize the market price, the port closes and the transmute offer ends. Seems like TD HQ could both reduce the number of trade goods in circulation and make people feel like they were getting a service.

Of those three MS is where I see a glut. The change in recipes has soaked up DP and PS.

I have over 100 AP extra and would look for an even split between DP and PS. Say 100 AP for 50 DP and 50 PS which is a favorable trade for the other party based on current high bids in Wade's Once More with Feeling! auction.

edwin wrote: Of those three MS is where I see a glut. The change in recipes has soaked up DP and PS.

I have over 100 AP extra and would look for an even split between DP and PS. Say 100 AP for 50 DP and 50 PS which is a favorable trade for the other party based on current high bids in Wade's Once More with Feeling! auction.

Yeah, this year at least, AP and PS are priced within a few pennies of each other.

Endgame wrote:

Rob F wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Rob F wrote:

NightGod wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Rob F wrote: I can see where Fiddy's coming from but I agree with Matthew, unless there's a compelling reason for Tokens to transmute into multiple Trade classifications I say let things be. Historically I think only Plank has been high on the supply side. Stone used to go for a buck and now it's in more demand, I could use some more myself whereas in years past I used to have a ton. Same for Silk, used to be pricier and harder to get but now it's like Plank. Easiest thing to still do is bump up the recipes if we feel there's a glut.

Bumping the recipes has gotten rather extreme recently.

I would prefer that sets have a nearly fixed amount of TG and if it looks like there will be extra X, change one or more of the C tokens to a GP token.

Oh, too much silk in the final final tokens? Change the +2 cloak of resistance to the 100gp jeweled +2 cloak of resistance. In this case, the cloak no longer transmutes to silk, but to gold bar. The glut of silk in that set is fixed, players get a more steady supply of gold, everyone wins.

Agreed on the bumping of recipes being extreme. The cost of making a relic this year is up over $100 more than making one two years ago. That number hurt to see, honestly.

Just curious, you mention over $100 increase for this year's relics over the last few years. How did you come up with that? On the secondary market the prices of Relics over the last few years seems to be about the same.

For one aspect, look at the raw number of trade goods it takes to build a relic (total count works). Observe how is has grown annually since 2018.

Price out buying the trade goods from TD tavern for blessed redoubt helm vs necklace of the sneak vs sacred necklace. Price it out again for auction average TG price.

This year, auction average price has dropped from 2019, however we now regularly see “augmented” auctions that add extra stuff to the auction without changing the funding goal. If you look at the TG prices for unaugumented auctions only, you’ll find that TG prices have not dropped at the same rate that transmute costs have gone up. I believe we are getting to the point where a 1k order will not guarantee enough TG to build a relic.

The one issue I have with this analysis (meaning looking at the current price of trade goods and adding everything up) is that today's prices weren't the same as what they were years ago when the older relics were being made. Silk used to go for triple or more than what it is now. Gold, oil, aragonite and others were also going for more. Maybe the new relics are more expensive, but maybe not as much as people think. Also, just my gut, but I do feel it's easier to pick up a completed relic nowadays on the secondary market and through auctions then it was a few years back. Same with Legendaries. Some have been selling on ebay in the $800 range. Years ago you couldn't find them for less then 1K.

How far back are you talking for price of trade goods? I would have to consult my spreadsheet that tracks this stuff, but I believe 2018 silk averaged around 1.15 and now is closer to 1.00. Stone has actually about tripled in price since then. Here is a sample auction - the first one I ever participated in:

truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=584&id=248428&start=0

Use those prices to build a blessed redoubt helm (my first relic) and then build a sacred necklace from the most recent completed auction:

truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=584&id=252713

What do you see price wise?

I looked back a bit further and I think Kirk might have been the first to do an 8K auction. 3 years and 6 months ago Silk was going for $3.50/each. Which is what I remember. Parchment was also up close to $6. Ink was about $3. In addition, the Blessed Redout Helm does not require a Fleece like the Sacred Necklace. Fast forward and Silk is now $1 and Ink is more expensive then Parchment. I stared playing around 2012 and back then I remember you couldn't find a 1K Bar for less than $20. So prices on the TG's eb and flow from year to year. I think you can slice the numbers a few different ways. You mention you think we're getting to a point where a 1K order won't guarantee enough TG to build a Relic. That doesn't bother me at all. Not when I can pick up three completed Relics on the secondary market for 1K. And if you want a cheap Legendary check out ebay, theres a Shield at $360 with less than a day to go...

Rob F wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Rob F wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Rob F wrote:

NightGod wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Rob F wrote: I can see where Fiddy's coming from but I agree with Matthew, unless there's a compelling reason for Tokens to transmute into multiple Trade classifications I say let things be. Historically I think only Plank has been high on the supply side. Stone used to go for a buck and now it's in more demand, I could use some more myself whereas in years past I used to have a ton. Same for Silk, used to be pricier and harder to get but now it's like Plank. Easiest thing to still do is bump up the recipes if we feel there's a glut.

Bumping the recipes has gotten rather extreme recently.

I would prefer that sets have a nearly fixed amount of TG and if it looks like there will be extra X, change one or more of the C tokens to a GP token.

Oh, too much silk in the final final tokens? Change the +2 cloak of resistance to the 100gp jeweled +2 cloak of resistance. In this case, the cloak no longer transmutes to silk, but to gold bar. The glut of silk in that set is fixed, players get a more steady supply of gold, everyone wins.

Agreed on the bumping of recipes being extreme. The cost of making a relic this year is up over $100 more than making one two years ago. That number hurt to see, honestly.

Just curious, you mention over $100 increase for this year's relics over the last few years. How did you come up with that? On the secondary market the prices of Relics over the last few years seems to be about the same.

For one aspect, look at the raw number of trade goods it takes to build a relic (total count works). Observe how is has grown annually since 2018.

Price out buying the trade goods from TD tavern for blessed redoubt helm vs necklace of the sneak vs sacred necklace. Price it out again for auction average TG price.

This year, auction average price has dropped from 2019, however we now regularly see “augmented” auctions that add extra stuff to the auction without changing the funding goal. If you look at the TG prices for unaugumented auctions only, you’ll find that TG prices have not dropped at the same rate that transmute costs have gone up. I believe we are getting to the point where a 1k order will not guarantee enough TG to build a relic.

The one issue I have with this analysis (meaning looking at the current price of trade goods and adding everything up) is that today's prices weren't the same as what they were years ago when the older relics were being made. Silk used to go for triple or more than what it is now. Gold, oil, aragonite and others were also going for more. Maybe the new relics are more expensive, but maybe not as much as people think. Also, just my gut, but I do feel it's easier to pick up a completed relic nowadays on the secondary market and through auctions then it was a few years back. Same with Legendaries. Some have been selling on ebay in the $800 range. Years ago you couldn't find them for less then 1K.

How far back are you talking for price of trade goods? I would have to consult my spreadsheet that tracks this stuff, but I believe 2018 silk averaged around 1.15 and now is closer to 1.00. Stone has actually about tripled in price since then. Here is a sample auction - the first one I ever participated in:

truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=584&id=248428&start=0

Use those prices to build a blessed redoubt helm (my first relic) and then build a sacred necklace from the most recent completed auction:

truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=584&id=252713

What do you see price wise?

I looked back a bit further and I think Kirk might have been the first to do an 8K auction. 3 years and 6 months ago Silk was going for $3.50/each. Which is what I remember. Parchment was also up close to $6. Ink was about $3. In addition, the Blessed Redout Helm does not require a Fleece like the Sacred Necklace. Fast forward and Silk is now $1 and Ink is more expensive then Parchment. I stared playing around 2012 and back then I remember you couldn't find a 1K Bar for less than $20. So prices on the TG's eb and flow from year to year. I think you can slice the numbers a few different ways. You mention you think we're getting to a point where a 1K order won't guarantee enough TG to build a Relic. That doesn't bother me at all. Not when I can pick up three completed Relics on the secondary market for 1K. And if you want a cheap Legendary check out ebay, theres a Shield at $360 with less than a day to go...

eBay prices don’t matter until the last minute. Giln’s Redoubt shield isn’t exactly the most desirable legendary given it’s only an AC buff and only a couple of classes can use it, but I’d still be surprised to see it go for less than 800.