TOPIC: Transmute Token Ideas

I think the point he is trying to make if these items have no reason to exclude classes, as the existing ones do not do so at uncommon or rare level.

Also these in no way connect to the Redoubt set, which gave a higher AC in trade for reducing saving throws. Not sure why this design would be considered Redoubt having none of the markers of a Redoubt item.

SnakeEyes (Eric) wrote:

Fiddy wrote:

SnakeEyes (Eric) wrote:

Grizwald wrote:

SnakeEyes (Eric) wrote: Let's do something fun with all those great Greaves tokens we've been getting from the treasure boxes for the last 5 years and allow fighter-types to not lose their Redoubt bonus when using a two-handed weapon.

Redoubt Greaves

UR - Redoubt Greaves: - 2 dmg Darkrift, Fire, Cold, Shock, and Poison (All except Monk & Wizards)

Transmuted-Relic (5 pt) - Blessed Redoubt Greaves: - 4 dmg Darkrift, Fire, Cold, Shock, and Poison (Barbarian, Cleric, Fighters & Paladin)

Transmuted-Legendary - Harlax's Redoubt Greaves: - 6 dmg Darkrift, Fire, Cold, Shock, and Poison (Cleric, Fighters & Paladin)

Transmute:
The Relic requires the UR plus one of each Uncommon and Rare Greaves token plus other items and 5,000 GP Bar.

The Legendary requires the Relic plus one of each Uncommon and Rare Greaves token plus other items and 25,000 GP Bar and 15,000 GP in reserve.

Why exclude Monks and Wizards from the UR? Why exclude anyone from any of the levels?

Class exclusions are common to tokens made for specific classes. There are numerious reasons clases are excluded such as Wizards traditionally not wearing armor, but mostly it has to do with balance. You can learn more about previous Redoubt tokens and the classes that are able to use them here. http://tokendb.com/?fwp_token_search=redoubt

Class exclusives generally are based off the item type. In this case, the item type is Greaves. And so far the type "greaves" has been usable by all. You can learn more about greaves here: tokendb.com/?fwp_token_search=Greaves

Those are great, greaves! But they're not Redoubt items... which are primarliy made for Clerics, Fighters, Paladins, and sometimes Barbarians... and rarely Bards, Druids, Rangers, and Rogues but never Monks and Wizards.

I think Eric your idea would do better if it were a shin slot, non-greaves item.

Usually in TD the item name / type has consistent classes (e.g. "Plate" armor tends to be usable by Cleric, Figthers, and Paladin, Daggers tend to be usable by all but cleric, etc.).

I think the pushback here is because "Greaves" (as distinct from shin slot items) are usable by all so far.

So call your idea:

Redoubt Jambeau (Shin slot)

And everyone is likely to be more happy.

There was a good discussion not long ago about an item which would let you "sideboard" an item(s); to make them available in certain corner cases, instead of having to use them in a build (suboptimally). For example, Goggles of Seeing's see in normal darkness or IS: Iridescent Spindle's sustain without air.

So something like:
Satchel of Holding
Slotless
Stow one non-armor/weapon uncommon token;
free action to use this item as if equipped for rest of room (1/game)

So afraid of insects in the Madroot Marsh; put a Bead Bugbane in your satchel.

Then maybe it could transmute into:

Satchel of Stowing
Slotless 4*
Stow one non-armor/weapon rare token;
free action to use this item as if equipped for rest of room (1/game)

You could even give this a Relic or Legendary edition and maybe the base item is more UR level.

I know there is fear of making this too powerful, but if it is limited to uncommons and rares and 1/game it's unlikely to get too unbalanced.

And it's kind of neat!

Matthew Hayward wrote:

SnakeEyes (Eric) wrote:

Fiddy wrote:

SnakeEyes (Eric) wrote:

Grizwald wrote:

SnakeEyes (Eric) wrote: Let's do something fun with all those great Greaves tokens we've been getting from the treasure boxes for the last 5 years and allow fighter-types to not lose their Redoubt bonus when using a two-handed weapon.

Redoubt Greaves

UR - Redoubt Greaves: - 2 dmg Darkrift, Fire, Cold, Shock, and Poison (All except Monk & Wizards)

Transmuted-Relic (5 pt) - Blessed Redoubt Greaves: - 4 dmg Darkrift, Fire, Cold, Shock, and Poison (Barbarian, Cleric, Fighters & Paladin)

Transmuted-Legendary - Harlax's Redoubt Greaves: - 6 dmg Darkrift, Fire, Cold, Shock, and Poison (Cleric, Fighters & Paladin)

Transmute:
The Relic requires the UR plus one of each Uncommon and Rare Greaves token plus other items and 5,000 GP Bar.

The Legendary requires the Relic plus one of each Uncommon and Rare Greaves token plus other items and 25,000 GP Bar and 15,000 GP in reserve.

Why exclude Monks and Wizards from the UR? Why exclude anyone from any of the levels?

Class exclusions are common to tokens made for specific classes. There are numerious reasons clases are excluded such as Wizards traditionally not wearing armor, but mostly it has to do with balance. You can learn more about previous Redoubt tokens and the classes that are able to use them here. http://tokendb.com/?fwp_token_search=redoubt

Class exclusives generally are based off the item type. In this case, the item type is Greaves. And so far the type "greaves" has been usable by all. You can learn more about greaves here: tokendb.com/?fwp_token_search=Greaves

Those are great, greaves! But they're not Redoubt items... which are primarliy made for Clerics, Fighters, Paladins, and sometimes Barbarians... and rarely Bards, Druids, Rangers, and Rogues but never Monks and Wizards.

I think Eric your idea would do better if it were a shin slot, non-greaves item.

Usually in TD the item name / type has consistent classes (e.g. "Plate" armor tends to be usable by Cleric, Figthers, and Paladin, Daggers tend to be usable by all but cleric, etc.).

I think the pushback here is because "Greaves" (as distinct from shin slot items) are usable by all so far.

So call your idea:

Redoubt Jambeau (Shin slot)

And everyone is likely to be more happy.

That makes sense, Matt. But to their point, ALL classes have benefited from the damage reduction provided by the greaves tokens over the last five years... so maybe we include all classes in an Exalted Greaves transmute while creating some versitility in transmuting the Redoubt Jambeau...

Transmuted-Exalted (4 pt) - Adventurer's Greaves: -2 dmg Darkrift, Fire, Cold, Shock, and Poison (Shin Slot - Usable by All) [Transmute: Requires one of each Uncommon and Rare Greaves token plus other items and 3,000 GP.]

UR - Redoubt Jambeau: -2 dmg Darkrift, Fire, Cold, Shock, and Poison, -2 to all Saves (Shin Slot - Barbarian, Cleric, Fighters & Paladin)

Transmuted-Relic (5 pt) - Blessed Redoubt Jambeau: -4 dmg Darkrift, Fire, Cold, Shock, and Poison (Shin Slot - Barbarian, Cleric, Fighters & Paladin) [Transmute: Requires Adventurer's Greaves OR Redoubt Jambeau and one of each Uncommon and Rare Greaves token plus other items and 5,000 GP.]

Transmuted-Legendary - Harlax's Redoubt Jambeau: -6 dmg Darkrift, Fire, Cold, Shock, and Poison (Shin Slot - Cleric, Fighters & Paladin) [Transmute: Blessed Redoubt Jambeau and one of each Uncommon and Rare Greaves token plus other items and 5,000 GP.]

SnakeEyes (Eric) wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

SnakeEyes (Eric) wrote:

Fiddy wrote:

SnakeEyes (Eric) wrote:

Grizwald wrote:

SnakeEyes (Eric) wrote: Let's do something fun with all those great Greaves tokens we've been getting from the treasure boxes for the last 5 years and allow fighter-types to not lose their Redoubt bonus when using a two-handed weapon.

Redoubt Greaves

UR - Redoubt Greaves: - 2 dmg Darkrift, Fire, Cold, Shock, and Poison (All except Monk & Wizards)

Transmuted-Relic (5 pt) - Blessed Redoubt Greaves: - 4 dmg Darkrift, Fire, Cold, Shock, and Poison (Barbarian, Cleric, Fighters & Paladin)

Transmuted-Legendary - Harlax's Redoubt Greaves: - 6 dmg Darkrift, Fire, Cold, Shock, and Poison (Cleric, Fighters & Paladin)

Transmute:
The Relic requires the UR plus one of each Uncommon and Rare Greaves token plus other items and 5,000 GP Bar.

The Legendary requires the Relic plus one of each Uncommon and Rare Greaves token plus other items and 25,000 GP Bar and 15,000 GP in reserve.

Why exclude Monks and Wizards from the UR? Why exclude anyone from any of the levels?

Class exclusions are common to tokens made for specific classes. There are numerious reasons clases are excluded such as Wizards traditionally not wearing armor, but mostly it has to do with balance. You can learn more about previous Redoubt tokens and the classes that are able to use them here. http://tokendb.com/?fwp_token_search=redoubt

Class exclusives generally are based off the item type. In this case, the item type is Greaves. And so far the type "greaves" has been usable by all. You can learn more about greaves here: tokendb.com/?fwp_token_search=Greaves

Those are great, greaves! But they're not Redoubt items... which are primarliy made for Clerics, Fighters, Paladins, and sometimes Barbarians... and rarely Bards, Druids, Rangers, and Rogues but never Monks and Wizards.

I think Eric your idea would do better if it were a shin slot, non-greaves item.

Usually in TD the item name / type has consistent classes (e.g. "Plate" armor tends to be usable by Cleric, Figthers, and Paladin, Daggers tend to be usable by all but cleric, etc.).

I think the pushback here is because "Greaves" (as distinct from shin slot items) are usable by all so far.

So call your idea:

Redoubt Jambeau (Shin slot)

And everyone is likely to be more happy.

That makes sense, Matt. But to their point, ALL classes have benefited from the damage reduction provided by the greaves tokens over the last five years... so maybe we include all classes in an Exalted Greaves transmute while creating some versitility in transmuting the Redoubt Jambeau...

Transmuted-Exalted (4 pt) - Adventurer's Greaves: -2 dmg Darkrift, Fire, Cold, Shock, and Poison (Shin Slot - Usable by All) [Transmute: Requires one of each Uncommon and Rare Greaves token plus other items and 3,000 GP.]

UR - Redoubt Jambeau: -2 dmg Darkrift, Fire, Cold, Shock, and Poison, -2 to all Saves (Shin Slot - Barbarian, Cleric, Fighters & Paladin)

Transmuted-Relic (5 pt) - Blessed Redoubt Jambeau: -4 dmg Darkrift, Fire, Cold, Shock, and Poison (Shin Slot - Barbarian, Cleric, Fighters & Paladin) [Transmute: Requires Adventurer's Greaves OR Redoubt Jambeau and one of each Uncommon and Rare Greaves token plus other items and 5,000 GP.]

Transmuted-Legendary - Harlax's Redoubt Jambeau: -6 dmg Darkrift, Fire, Cold, Shock, and Poison (Shin Slot - Cleric, Fighters & Paladin) [Transmute: Blessed Redoubt Jambeau and one of each Uncommon and Rare Greaves token plus other items and 5,000 GP.]

The point we're all currently overlooking is that greaves/shin slot items are Treasure Box Only Items and currently interchangeable in their treatment because there are no other shin slot items. Based on precedents, I could see a direct transmute using 1 each Rare Greaves to a Relic or UR Token, and another transmute using either uncommon only or a mix of U and R for a UR or R token respectively. It's always possible some time in the future Greaves/Shin will enter the Standard sets, but I doubt they will start off with a Legendary Transmute unless that's all that's left at the time it's created. haha!

EDIT: I do like the idea of combining greaves for greater (or just to combine) resistances. At some point I would expect to see Acid, Sonic, Melee, Missle, and Spell greaves added. I do think that a Legendary item should protect from "Everything Except Eldritch" similar to how the 2018GT Medallions function for adding resistances.

Potential idea for the next Arcanum Set item:
Could be either a Charm or Ioun Stone.
Charm of Might
+3 to All Damage, -1 to Hit

Charm of Sight
+3 to Hit, -1 Damage

Charm of Will
+3 Will Saves, -1 Fortitude Saves

Charm of Fortitude
+3 Fortitude Saves, -1 Reflex Saves

Charm of Reflexes
+3 Reflex Saves, -1 Will Saves

Arcanum Charm
+2 to Hit, +2 Damage, +2 Saves

Fiddy wrote:

SnakeEyes (Eric) wrote:

Grizwald wrote:

SnakeEyes (Eric) wrote: Let's do something fun with all those great Greaves tokens we've been getting from the treasure boxes for the last 5 years and allow fighter-types to not lose their Redoubt bonus when using a two-handed weapon.

Redoubt Greaves

UR - Redoubt Greaves: - 2 dmg Darkrift, Fire, Cold, Shock, and Poison (All except Monk & Wizards)

Transmuted-Relic (5 pt) - Blessed Redoubt Greaves: - 4 dmg Darkrift, Fire, Cold, Shock, and Poison (Barbarian, Cleric, Fighters & Paladin)

Transmuted-Legendary - Harlax's Redoubt Greaves: - 6 dmg Darkrift, Fire, Cold, Shock, and Poison (Cleric, Fighters & Paladin)

Transmute:
The Relic requires the UR plus one of each Uncommon and Rare Greaves token plus other items and 5,000 GP Bar.

The Legendary requires the Relic plus one of each Uncommon and Rare Greaves token plus other items and 25,000 GP Bar and 15,000 GP in reserve.

Why exclude Monks and Wizards from the UR? Why exclude anyone from any of the levels?

Class exclusions are common to tokens made for specific classes. There are numerious reasons clases are excluded such as Wizards traditionally not wearing armor, but mostly it has to do with balance. You can learn more about previous Redoubt tokens and the classes that are able to use them here. http://tokendb.com/?fwp_token_search=redoubt

Class exclusives generally are based off the item type. In this case, the item type is Greaves. And so far the type "greaves" has been usable by all. You can learn more about greaves here: tokendb.com/?fwp_token_search=Greaves

Like.

FYI leave the monk and wizards off the Redoubt greaves, and give them.

UR : Soft greaves : monk and wizard. -3 damage from all sources (except eldritch). ... Bards can come too.

Grizwald wrote: Potential idea for the next Arcanum Set item:
Could be either a Charm or Ioun Stone.
Charm of Might
+3 to All Damage, -1 to Hit

I would Avoid Using Might in the name, to eliminate confusion it might be part of the Might Set. Maybe "Charm of the Oaf"

Also, On the Arcanum Charm, I would specify Eldritch and/or Darkrift Damage to bring it in line with other multi-year Transmute element types.

~4 common food tokens that transmute into a Big Sandwich

Axe of Shredding, Rare 2H Axe/Bard Instrument: Transmutes into Starmetal Axe. Possibly multiple Axes in party lead to higher Bard bonus?

Combine Suet/fat, ashes (maybe a dust), Selas Perfume, and beeswax into Auri's Soap

10ft pole, Rope, & short sword = goblin spear

Singsalot wrote: Axe of Shredding, Rare 2H Axe/Bard Instrument: Transmutes into Starmetal Axe.

Bards cannot be trusted with 2-handed melee weapons.

Fiddy wrote:

Singsalot wrote: Axe of Shredding, Rare 2H Axe/Bard Instrument: Transmutes into Starmetal Axe.

Bards cannot be trusted with 2-handed melee weapons.

Other than the Adventurer's Staff, Sling Staff, and Wooden Oar