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TOPIC: Please Power Up Iktomi’s Shaper Necklace

Please Power Up Iktomi’s Shaper Necklace 1 year 1 month ago #37

jedibcg banjo 2020 is the worst wrote:

Fred K wrote: Yes - the damage wheel is good but because of the low initial str of a druid combined with not having as many damage and to hit bonus items as a fighter or barbarian, you cap out at around +16-18 to hit and +30 dmg. To get there, you have to dump almost all your spell casting items so you lose any versatility.

Fred

I 100% agree you lose versatility of the Druid, if you want to bash. I built a druid that without consumbables (including no runestones), no bardsong has a +24 to hit and +49 Polymorph damage. That means it is averaging 60 damage. I put in CoA, ISSN, ISGN and ISPN because I knew I could not cheat and not use those in slots.


Out of selfishness, I'd love to see this build so I can see where I can up my dmg :)
~Rebecca

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truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=583&id=253588

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Please Power Up Iktomi’s Shaper Necklace 1 year 1 month ago #38

Mike Steele wrote:

jedibcg banjo 2020 is the worst wrote: The damage wheel for the Necklace is the second highest melee damage wheel. It beats Asher's and Welfor's on average. I thought the understanding was the Necklace was a particular type of build....bashy bashy. Similar to how the Ranger Legendary is for a Range Ranger. I understand that if you don't want to bash it is not very helpful, but looking at it in that light does it change anyone's perception of how powerful it is?

Not advocating against or for a power up for the necklace, but I don't understand thinking it is not powerful. Granted only in particular build, but in those builds the Druid hits hard as an Elemental.


I think it needs to be compared to the other Class Legendary tokens to gauge it's power level, and I think it falls well short in that comparison.

Well that is partially my point if you want to bash with it it is giving better damage wheel than the Paladin Legendary. I don't know how you compare it to the others exactly.
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Please Power Up Iktomi’s Shaper Necklace 1 year 1 month ago #39

Dragon6483 wrote:

jedibcg banjo 2020 is the worst wrote:

Fred K wrote: Yes - the damage wheel is good but because of the low initial str of a druid combined with not having as many damage and to hit bonus items as a fighter or barbarian, you cap out at around +16-18 to hit and +30 dmg. To get there, you have to dump almost all your spell casting items so you lose any versatility.

Fred

I 100% agree you lose versatility of the Druid, if you want to bash. I built a druid that without consumbables (including no runestones), no bardsong has a +24 to hit and +49 Polymorph damage. That means it is averaging 60 damage. I put in CoA, ISSN, ISGN and ISPN because I knew I could not cheat and not use those in slots.


Out of selfishness, I'd love to see this build so I can see where I can up my dmg :)

I built it on tdcharactercreator. It is not my build. It is just a suped up Druid Elemental Polymorph basher.

Actually it could +25/+49 OR +24/+50.
Class: Druid

STR: 42
DEX: 18
CON: 10
INT: 16
WIS: 19
CHA: 20

Melee:
Hit: 24 Damage: 39 AC: 14

Range:
Hit: 4 Damage: 11 AC: 14 Missle AC: 0

Spell:
Damage: 16 Heal: 11 Resist: 0

Saves:
Reflex: 6 Fort: 5 Will: 9

Treasure:
Min: 20 Max: 22

Health: 22

Damage Reduction:
MeleeRangeSpellFireColdShockSonicEldritchPoisonDarkriftSacred
00000000000

Melee Mainhand: Drue’s +5 Baton of Focus
Melee Offhand: Brawler’s Mug (Rare)
Ranged Mainhand: Empty
Ranged Offhand: Empty
Head: Crown of Might
Eyes: Goggles of Instant Analysis
Left Ear: Arcane Earcuff
Right Ear: Earcuff of Orbits
Neck: Iktomi’s Shaper Necklace
Bead: EmptyTorso: Aron’s Sunhide Robe
Wrist: Charm Bracelets
Hands: Gloves of the Brute
Back: EmptyRing: Ring of the Eel
Ring: Ring of the Drake
Ring: Ring of Siren
Waist: Surtr’s Girdle of Fire Giant Strength
Shirt: Shirt of the Oaf
Legs: Kilt of Barrelbane
Shins: EmptyBoots: Boots of the Four Winds
Figurine: Figurine of Power: Reaver
Figurine: Figurine of Power: Panther
Charm: Charm of Avarice
Charm: Charm of Awakened Synergy
Charm: Charm of Brooching
Charm: Charm of Glory
Charm: Draco-Lich Claw Charm
Charm: Greater Onyx Charm
Charm: Fiendish Charm
Ioun Stone: Ioun Stone Gold Nugget
Ioun Stone: Ioun Stone Silver Nugget
Ioun Stone: Ioun Stone Platinum Nugget
Ioun Stone: Ioun Stone Infernal Fire Prism
Ioun Stone: Ioun Stone Onyx Cube
Ioun Stone: Ioun Stone Jasper Ellipsoid
Ioun Stone: Ioun Stone Onyx Sphere
Slotless: Rod of Seven Parts
Slotless: Skull of Cavadar
Runestone: Empty
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Last edit: by jedibcg.

Please Power Up Iktomi’s Shaper Necklace 1 year 1 month ago #40

jedibcg banjo 2020 is the worst wrote:

Fred K wrote: Yes - the damage wheel is good but because of the low initial str of a druid combined with not having as many damage and to hit bonus items as a fighter or barbarian, you cap out at around +16-18 to hit and +30 dmg. To get there, you have to dump almost all your spell casting items so you lose any versatility.

Fred

I 100% agree you lose versatility of the Druid, if you want to bash. I built a druid that without consumbables (including no runestones), no bardsong has a +24 to hit and +49 Polymorph damage. That means it is averaging 60 damage. I put in CoA, ISSN, ISGN and ISPN because I knew I could not cheat and not use those in slots.


I’d be curious to see that build. I tried quite a few variations but couldn’t get the combination of to hit and damage while still having decent hp and saves. I did keep a heal bonus above 10 in those builds, though. I did discover a gap in the character creators, though, that they calculate damage based on the elemental form being 1 handed rather than 2 handed (it can be either.) That could add another 10-13 damage.

Even at +24/+49 (60 dmg avg) would put the elemental druid below avg damage for monk, ranger, wizard, rogue, barbarian, fighter, dw fighter, paladin, and elf wizard. The only classes lower in damage would be bard and cleric. At the same time, the druid would have an AC around 10 (or more) worse than the barb, fighter, dw fighter, paladin, and ranger.

I’m not sure a cabal druid would do less damage than the polymorph druid. When we add the 2021 items, I’m 90% sure the caster druid is more dmg.

Fred
What do we want? Evidence based science! When do we want it? After peer review!

Wizard build
truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=570&id=247398

Rogue build
truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=569&id=245490#287189

Items for Sale or Trade
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truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=61&id=253058

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Please Power Up Iktomi’s Shaper Necklace 1 year 1 month ago #41

Fred K wrote: I’m not sure a cabal druid would do less damage than the polymorph druid. When we add the 2021 items, I’m 90% sure the caster druid is more dmg.

Fred


The build is above. It is only built for smashing not for saves (you have 2 back slots available though to equip Legendary and Relic back which would be +10 to all of them). I am interest in seeing the build of the caster build Druid that does 60 damage every round. Not saying it is not possible, but just would like to see it.


Rogue equiped with the same items (except the Legendary Necklace and Asher's) is +23 to hit and +38 damage. When it Sneak attacks it would be a higher average. On a non-sneak attack that average damage is lower. It does still crit more often which should take average damage up but I don't know how you calculate crit chance on a ability to slide. The Rogue will need to lose some to hit and damage to put on bracers to allow it to sneak attack more creatures that usually cannot have sneak attack used on them, but definitely worth it.

Monk and Ranger are going to beat because of the double pucks, no argument there.
Classes using the Deathcleaver depends if you want to sacrifice some to hit to do more damage. Using the same items most of them with have a higher to hit, but their damage isn't as high. You can change out Ring of Frost for Ring of Brilliance for 1 more damage. The Strength difference for Barbarian to Druid is +3 Damage and another +4 for using a two handed and +1 for a higher average with the Deathcleaver means they are getting +9. So I think using the same equipment the average damage is still in the Druid's poly is getting a +10 (5 from the card and 5 from the Legendary Baton). Again you can sacrifice some of the to hit for the Barbarian (and other deathcleaver wielders and increase their damage), but I think it is going to be close. EDIT: I forgot to put the Legendary Necklace on the Barbarian and Fighters. The Paladin doesn't have one so I put Stu's on and was using it Incorrectly to base numbers on.
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Last edit: by jedibcg.

Please Power Up Iktomi’s Shaper Necklace 1 year 1 month ago #42

jedibcg banjo 2020 is the worst wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

jedibcg banjo 2020 is the worst wrote: The damage wheel for the Necklace is the second highest melee damage wheel. It beats Asher's and Welfor's on average. I thought the understanding was the Necklace was a particular type of build....bashy bashy. Similar to how the Ranger Legendary is for a Range Ranger. I understand that if you don't want to bash it is not very helpful, but looking at it in that light does it change anyone's perception of how powerful it is?

Not advocating against or for a power up for the necklace, but I don't understand thinking it is not powerful. Granted only in particular build, but in those builds the Druid hits hard as an Elemental.


I think it needs to be compared to the other Class Legendary tokens to gauge it's power level, and I think it falls well short in that comparison.

Well that is partially my point if you want to bash with it it is giving better damage wheel than the Paladin Legendary. I don't know how you compare it to the others exactly.


Keep in mind this is neck slot while the Paladin is weapon slot.

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Please Power Up Iktomi’s Shaper Necklace 1 year 1 month ago #43

Yes. But you want to only comparing the legionaries to each other. So it does more damage but has less to hit without comparing anything else. With no other tokens to look at it does not matter what slot it is in. If we can think about other tokens. Then currently the Druid can ALSO equip a Legendary weapon while the Paladin cannot equip a Legendary Necklace, other classes can but Paladin cannot.
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Please Power Up Iktomi’s Shaper Necklace 1 year 1 month ago #44

i really think you should have waited to post this until a change (if it happens/ happened) to the wizards. I think this might just make it a no for both. Because then every other class will make a post like this as well. it would cause a constant change to the tokens
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Please Power Up Iktomi’s Shaper Necklace 1 year 1 month ago #45

The reason the Rogue damage is so high is because you can sneak attack twice in every combat. My Melee Rogue build is +35 damage per attack using Nightshade's. That means on 3 regular hits in a typical combat - it will be +55 damage (base plus sneak) plus weapon damage (avg around 6). That would be 61 damage for the first two attacks then 41 damage for the third attack. Although that is slightly higher than the druid, it doesn't take into account crits. The druid will crit on 19-20, the rogue on 17-20 so twice the crit range.

Keep in mind, that build had almost no sacrifices with saves of 14/24/12 and using the bracers to always allow sneak and crits. The base damage can be increased by another 10 if you sacrifice on saves.

The range version is +17/+26 with 14/30/17 saves and good hp. That can be increased by about 5 damage by sacrificing on saves. Apples to apples, that means 52-54 damage on an average sneak attack but 120-130 damage on a crit.

For the caster druid build, this is what I came up with:
+34 spell damage. Druid have 7 damage spells but can add another 3 with spell swapping and another 2 using expertise and ring of spell storing.

Using the Cabal gloves, that gives you between 45 and 54 damage per spell (before spell surge).
Combat 1:
Round 1: Freezing orb twice (cabal) - total of 90 damage
Round 2: Freezing orb (45) then scroll (shield of scholar) for around 10 dmg
Round 3: Freezing orb (45)
Combat 2:
Round 1: Lightning Storm (54) and firebolt (49) = 104
Round 2: Firebolt (49) then scroll for 10
Round 3: Fire bolt (49)
<lightning storm is restored via crown>
Combat 3:
Round 1: Spell surged Lightning Storm (74) then Lightning Storm again (54) = 128
Round 2: Lightning Storm for 54 scroll for 10
Round 3: Freezing Orb (charm of spell swapping) for 44

9 Round of combat, total damage (excluding scrolls): 607 (plus 30 on scrolls) - average damage per round is 67.4. If extended pas 10 rounds, the druid runs out of offensive spells. It is possible to get a few more points of damage but this still keeps decent saves and hp (worse save is a 21 and 74 hp). I suspect if you used the new rare spell surge item, you likely increase the damage at the cost of some saves.

Caster Druid
Class: Druid

STR: 14
DEX: 25
CON: 22
INT: 16
WIS: 19
CHA: 20

Melee:
Hit: 7 Damage: 15 AC: 20

Range:
Hit: 12 Damage: 19 AC: 20 Missle AC: 0

Spell:
Damage: 34 Heal: 29 Resist: 10

Saves:
Reflex: 21 Fort: 23 Will: 21

Treasure:
Min: 21 Max: 23

Health: 73

Damage Reduction:
MeleeRangeSpellFireColdShockSonicEldritchPoisonDarkriftSacred
044200000100

Melee Mainhand: Drue’s +5 Baton of Focus
Melee Offhand: Shield of the Scholar
Ranged Mainhand: Thor's +5 Returning Hammer of Smiting
Ranged Offhand: Shield of the Scholar
Head: Crown of Expertise/color]
Eyes: Lenses of Focus
Left Ear: Arcane Earcuff
Right Ear: Earcuff of Orbits
Neck: Charm Necklace
Bead: Bead of the Lucky Traveler
Torso: Aron’s Sunhide Robe
Wrist: Bracelets of the Cabal
Hands: Gloves of the Cabal
Back: Cloak of Shadowskin
Back: Pharacus’ Greater Cloak of Destiny
Ring: Relsa’s Ring of Supreme Focus
Ring: Ring of Spell Storing
Ring: Ring of Greater Focus
Waist: Arcane Belt
Shirt: Shirt of Focus
Legs: Kilt of Dungeonbane - Constitution
Shins: Flameguard Greaves
Boots: Boots of the Four Winds
Figurine: Figurine of Power: Cat
Figurine: Figurine of Power: Owl
Charm: Charm of Avarice
Charm: Charm of Awakened Synergy
Charm: Charm of Spell Swapping
Charm: Charm of Brooching
Charm: Charm of the Cabal
Charm: Divine Echo Charm
Charm: Draco-Lich Claw Charm
Charm: Charm of Glory
Ioun Stone: Ioun Stone Topaz Trilliant
Ioun Stone: Ioun Stone Gold Nugget
Ioun Stone: Ioun Stone Banshee Prism
Ioun Stone: Ioun Stone Platinum Nugget
Ioun Stone: Ioun Stone Elfstone Shard
Ioun Stone: Ioun Stone Garnet Cube
Ioun Stone: Ioun Stone Silver Nugget
Slotless: Ash's Death Pouch
Slotless: 1st Tooth of Cavadar
Slotless: 2nd Tooth of Cavadar
Slotless: 3rd Tooth of Cavadar
Slotless: 4th Tooth of Cavadar
Slotless: Flask of Sharing
Slotless: Greater Alchemist Pouch
Slotless: Greater Arcane Scroll Tube
Slotless: Horn of the Blessed Ox
Slotless: Kvothe’s Bloodless
Slotless: Lamp of the Marid
Slotless: Medallion of Nobility
Slotless: Minotaur Horn of Alert
Slotless: Pouch of Tulz
Slotless: Quiver of Anointment
Slotless: Runestone Fitting Base
Slotless: Lamp of the Efreeti
Slotless: Lotus Blossom Bowls
Slotless: Horn of the Valkyrie
Slotless: Druegar’s Death Die
Slotless: Rod of Seven Parts
Slotless: Carter’s Tome of Insight
Slotless: Censer of Sacrifice
Slotless: Drinking Horn of Bliss
Slotless: Sea Dragon Scroll Tube
Slotless: 5th Tooth of Cavadar
Slotless: Canteen of Quaffing
Slotless: Horn of Calling
Slotless: Horn of Rally
Slotless: Soul Coffer
Slotless: Gregor’s Tome of Focus
Slotless: Alchemist Pouch
Slotless: 50 GP Ebony Scroll Tube
Slotless: Alchemist Purse
Slotless: Soul Jar
Slotless: Greater Mistletoe
Slotless: Bowl of Spirit Sight
Slotless: Enchanter’s Whetstone
Slotless: 6th Tooth of Cavadar
Slotless: Semi-Lich Skull
Slotless: Horn of Blasting
Slotless: Runestone Fitting Base
Slotless: Skull of Cavadar
Slotless: Tankard of Celebration
Runestone: Decay Runestone
Runestone: Frost Runestone
Runestone: Bulwark Runestone
What do we want? Evidence based science! When do we want it? After peer review!

Wizard build
truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=570&id=247398

Rogue build
truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=569&id=245490#287189

Items for Sale or Trade
truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=583&id=247555

Items needed to complete my collection
truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=61&id=253058

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Last edit: by Fred K.

Please Power Up Iktomi’s Shaper Necklace 1 year 1 month ago #46

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote: i really think you should have waited to post this until a change (if it happens/ happened) to the wizards. I think this might just make it a no for both. Because then every other class will make a post like this as well. it would cause a constant change to the tokens


Chad, Jeff said in the Token Development cycle that he would take a look at the power levels of Iktomi's and possible other Class Legendaries after the development cycle was over, and possibly make adjustments. I'm not posting this out of the blue, I'm asking if that is still the plan, and if it is when it might happen. I didn't want this to fall through the cracks. Personally I think there is a much stronger case for Iktomi's than the Wizard Legendary because as they stand the Wizard Legendary is significantly more powerful than Iktomi's (and as I said, that's my opinion).

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Please Power Up Iktomi’s Shaper Necklace 1 year 1 month ago #47

Fred K wrote: T
+34 spell damage. Druid have 7 damage spells but can add another 3 with spell swapping and another 2 using expertise and ring of spell storing.

That is assuming everyone has the bracelets and you have 5 casters in the party correct? I know it is only a difference of 2 damage but just attempting to check the math. I might be missing something that makes it 34 without the other party members, which I think I am.....NVM found it. The pasted text says Crown of exp but you are using Cranston's for a plus +2. But you also say lightning storm is restored via crown. So I am bit confused on that.
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Please Power Up Iktomi’s Shaper Necklace 1 year 1 month ago #48

Mike Steele wrote:

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote: i really think you should have waited to post this until a change (if it happens/ happened) to the wizards. I think this might just make it a no for both. Because then every other class will make a post like this as well. it would cause a constant change to the tokens


Chad, Jeff said in the Token Development cycle that he would take a look at the power levels of Iktomi's and possible other Class Legendaries after the development cycle was over, and possibly make adjustments. I'm not posting this out of the blue, I'm asking if that is still the plan, and if it is when it might happen. I didn't want this to fall through the cracks. Personally I think there is a much stronger case for Iktomi's than the Wizard Legendary because as they stand the Wizard Legendary is significantly more powerful than Iktomi's (and as I said, that's my opinion).

I said hitting them with two at once was probably not a good
Idea. I didn’t say it wouldn’t happen or would happen. I just stated my opinion that was was probably not a good idea to hit them with both at once.
delpchad.blogspot.com/

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