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TOPIC: READ THIS! Change to MEC and Details on Relic & Legendary

READ THIS! Change to MEC and Details on Relic & Legendary 1 year 3 months ago #277

Mike Steele wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote: I don't see ANYONE using the Mad Evoker's Charm anymore.

It's FAR too expensive for the extremely weak benefit. Even on level 3 spells.

I'm generally OK with the necklace. I am extremely displeased with the attack against Wizards in the form of the Mad Evoker's Charm "fix"

More than anything I am extremely displeased that it was done in secret and was implemented with no way for the Wizards to defend ourselves.

It sets a very negative precedent that I hope all other players are watching very closely. Not only are your tokens not safe when the design window closes (Gloves of the Cabal) you tokens are not even safe on reprint 10 years later.

That eroded every bit of trust I have in tokens and fairness to classes.


Someone said they were going to use it about 3 posts ago.


Cool.

1 person in hundreds.

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READ THIS! Change to MEC and Details on Relic & Legendary 1 year 3 months ago #278

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote: I don't see ANYONE using the Mad Evoker's Charm anymore.

It's FAR too expensive for the extremely weak benefit. Even on level 3 spells.

I'm generally OK with the necklace. I am extremely displeased with the attack against Wizards in the form of the Mad Evoker's Charm "fix"

More than anything I am extremely displeased that it was done in secret and was implemented with no way for the Wizards to defend ourselves.

It sets a very negative precedent that I hope all other players are watching very closely. Not only are your tokens not safe when the design window closes (Gloves of the Cabal) you tokens are not even safe on reprint 10 years later.

That eroded every bit of trust I have in tokens and fairness to classes.


Someone said they were going to use it about 3 posts ago.


Cool.

1 person in hundreds.

There have been, what, a dozen or two people posting here that they won’t use it? Maybe 1 person in tens then?

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READ THIS! Change to MEC and Details on Relic & Legendary 1 year 3 months ago #279

Endgame wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote: I don't see ANYONE using the Mad Evoker's Charm anymore.

It's FAR too expensive for the extremely weak benefit. Even on level 3 spells.

I'm generally OK with the necklace. I am extremely displeased with the attack against Wizards in the form of the Mad Evoker's Charm "fix"

More than anything I am extremely displeased that it was done in secret and was implemented with no way for the Wizards to defend ourselves.

It sets a very negative precedent that I hope all other players are watching very closely. Not only are your tokens not safe when the design window closes (Gloves of the Cabal) you tokens are not even safe on reprint 10 years later.

That eroded every bit of trust I have in tokens and fairness to classes.


Someone said they were going to use it about 3 posts ago.


Cool.

1 person in hundreds.

There have been, what, a dozen or two people posting here that they won’t use it? Maybe 1 person in tens then?


It sounded like Ian Lee might use it also. So maybe 1 person in 6?

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READ THIS! Change to MEC and Details on Relic & Legendary 1 year 3 months ago #280

Do you seriously think 10% of the Wizard players would actually be OK with this change?

So far we have 24 pages of comments and it appears only 1 person in 24 pages is somewhat accepting of the design.

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READ THIS! Change to MEC and Details on Relic & Legendary 1 year 3 months ago #281

Arcanist Kolixela wrote: Do you seriously think 10% of the Wizard players would actually be OK with this change?

So far we have 24 pages of comments and it appears only 1 person in 24 pages is somewhat accepting of the design.


Obviously Wizards would prefer the version with only 10 HP cost, but I do think a number of Wizards will use the MEC effect. Maybe not as often, but I think they will use it.

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READ THIS! Change to MEC and Details on Relic & Legendary 1 year 3 months ago #282

Mike Steele wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote: Do you seriously think 10% of the Wizard players would actually be OK with this change?

So far we have 24 pages of comments and it appears only 1 person in 24 pages is somewhat accepting of the design.


Obviously Wizards would prefer the version with only 10 HP cost, but I do think a number of Wizards will use the MEC effect. Maybe not as often, but I think they will use it.


The change is massive enough that several Wizards have determined the Mad Evoker effect will never see use in any form of play. Other effects from the Necklace will but the trigger cost for the Mad Evoker effect is simply too expensive to actually get used outside of possibly room 7.

It's WAY too expensive to use in any form of the game where healing is in any way limited such as Nightmare/Epic Grind, Epic dungeon run or any of the specialty events like True Horde.


A change may have been necessary but the massive increase to the HP cost was not the correct way to do it.

A 10% reduction of Max HP when using the charm and leaving the trigger cost at 10HP would be a much more scalable option and would place the "frailty" on the Wizard NOT the healers.

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READ THIS! Change to MEC and Details on Relic & Legendary 1 year 3 months ago #283

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Mike Steele wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote: Do you seriously think 10% of the Wizard players would actually be OK with this change?

So far we have 24 pages of comments and it appears only 1 person in 24 pages is somewhat accepting of the design.


Obviously Wizards would prefer the version with only 10 HP cost, but I do think a number of Wizards will use the MEC effect. Maybe not as often, but I think they will use it.

Well, as long as you, a very vocal druid player, thinks some wizards will use it, then it must be perfect.

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READ THIS! Change to MEC and Details on Relic & Legendary 1 year 3 months ago #284

NightGod wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote: Do you seriously think 10% of the Wizard players would actually be OK with this change?

So far we have 24 pages of comments and it appears only 1 person in 24 pages is somewhat accepting of the design.


Obviously Wizards would prefer the version with only 10 HP cost, but I do think a number of Wizards will use the MEC effect. Maybe not as often, but I think they will use it.

Well, as long as you, a very vocal druid player, thinks some wizards will use it, then it must be perfect.


I don't believe I ever said it's perfect. I think I was pretty clear the original version would be preferable due to the lower HP cost, but I understand why it was changed. Time will tell if the effect is used or not. I still think the Legendary is terrific, even without the MEC effects.

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READ THIS! Change to MEC and Details on Relic & Legendary 1 year 3 months ago #285

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Mike Steele wrote:

NightGod wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote: Do you seriously think 10% of the Wizard players would actually be OK with this change?

So far we have 24 pages of comments and it appears only 1 person in 24 pages is somewhat accepting of the design.


Obviously Wizards would prefer the version with only 10 HP cost, but I do think a number of Wizards will use the MEC effect. Maybe not as often, but I think they will use it.

Well, as long as you, a very vocal druid player, thinks some wizards will use it, then it must be perfect.


I don't believe I ever said it's perfect. I think I was pretty clear the original version would be preferable due to the lower HP cost, but I understand why it was changed. Time will tell if the effect is used or not. I still think the Legendary is terrific, even without the MEC effects.

I mean, I think the druid legendary is terrific (I think it is the coolest effect of the legendaries-Poly + casting spells is sweet), but you've stated multiple times that you're excited about changing it.

It's almost like people who play the class regularly might have different opinions than those looking in from the outside.

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READ THIS! Change to MEC and Details on Relic & Legendary 1 year 3 months ago #286

NightGod wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

NightGod wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote: Do you seriously think 10% of the Wizard players would actually be OK with this change?

So far we have 24 pages of comments and it appears only 1 person in 24 pages is somewhat accepting of the design.


Obviously Wizards would prefer the version with only 10 HP cost, but I do think a number of Wizards will use the MEC effect. Maybe not as often, but I think they will use it.

Well, as long as you, a very vocal druid player, thinks some wizards will use it, then it must be perfect.


I don't believe I ever said it's perfect. I think I was pretty clear the original version would be preferable due to the lower HP cost, but I understand why it was changed. Time will tell if the effect is used or not. I still think the Legendary is terrific, even without the MEC effects.

I mean, I think the druid legendary is terrific (I think it is the coolest effect of the legendaries-Poly + casting spells is sweet), but you've stated multiple times that you're excited about changing it.

It's almost like people who play the class regularly might have different opinions than those looking in from the outside.


There seemed to be lots of Wizards that were going to use the MEC effect when it was a 1:1 effect. The Wizard 20 damage spell is nearly that now (25 HP for 20 damage), so why wouldn't Wizards that were going to use the 1:1 effect before use the MEC now for the 20 damage spell for nearly the same bonus? And since the Legendary allows that spell to be cast an additional time in each room, that's 80-100 bonus damage from the MEC effect per Dungeon for Wizards with the Legendary even if that's all that it is used for.

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READ THIS! Change to MEC and Details on Relic & Legendary 1 year 3 months ago #287

NightGod wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

NightGod wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote: Do you seriously think 10% of the Wizard players would actually be OK with this change?

So far we have 24 pages of comments and it appears only 1 person in 24 pages is somewhat accepting of the design.


Obviously Wizards would prefer the version with only 10 HP cost, but I do think a number of Wizards will use the MEC effect. Maybe not as often, but I think they will use it.

Well, as long as you, a very vocal druid player, thinks some wizards will use it, then it must be perfect.


I don't believe I ever said it's perfect. I think I was pretty clear the original version would be preferable due to the lower HP cost, but I understand why it was changed. Time will tell if the effect is used or not. I still think the Legendary is terrific, even without the MEC effects.

I mean, I think the druid legendary is terrific (I think it is the coolest effect of the legendaries-Poly + casting spells is sweet), but you've stated multiple times that you're excited about changing it.

It's almost like people who play the class regularly might have different opinions than those looking in from the outside.


+1
Lori-gorgon Survivor.

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READ THIS! Change to MEC and Details on Relic & Legendary 1 year 3 months ago #288

You can not say the UR token is OK because the Legendary token that has it's effect is good. Either the UR is good or it is not.

The BIG difference between a 1:1 channeling and a 25HP to gain 20, other than that being a 1:0.75 conversion, is that it ONLY works with the level 3 spell and that ONLY works 1 or 2 times per game without the Legendary necklace to allow it's use more than once. AND it's better to cast the level 2 slide spell that can critical vs the level 3 that can not.

Without the Relic or Legendary to supplement your spells the Mad Evoker's Charm is worse and worse every time it gets used.

25HP for +20 damage 1/game for the level 3 spell

25HP for +18 damage 2/game for the level 2 sliding spells
25HP for +11 damage 3 or 4 times per game for Magic Missile.

The existing token is 10 for 11, 10 for 18 or 10 for 20 a current path of 1:1.1 1:1.8 or 1:2

The new token is 1:0.44 1:0.72 or 1:0.8

That's a MASSIVE MASSIVE decrease.

It ALSO places the penalty straight on the healer, who is now expected to heal 25HP per turn for the Wizard to operate at the existing level of efficiency they have been operating at for 10 years.

That's just bad design.

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