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TOPIC: READ THIS! Change to MEC and Details on Relic & Legendary

READ THIS! Change to MEC and Details on Relic & Legendary 1 year 4 months ago #157

  • bpsymington
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Wow - that was a lot to read!

I don't think I would use the new MEC - I think the HP loss is a bit high. Even with the new HP boosts coming out (like the Elfstone Shard), I could see it only being used 2-3 times in a game.

However, I really like the options and flexibility of the new wizard relic/legendary. I am sure I will build the relic and then see if I could afford the legendary. I'd have to see if losing the charm necklace would be workable.

Again, awesome job, Jeff - thanks!
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READ THIS! Change to MEC and Details on Relic & Legendary 1 year 4 months ago #158

Ian Lee wrote: I would imagine the reason people offer opinions when their opinions may not matter at all is because they enjoy offering opinions.

Seems like few people have been playtesters for games as it's been my experience that it's rather common for people being compensated, aka paid, to think something will turn out the way they last saw it only for something to change after paid playtesting was done.

It's perhaps good public relations for a company to have the hoi polloi think it is the primary factor in determining how its entertainment goes, but there are always influences that aren't going to be made public. For instance, I'm a game developer. I put things in front of playtesters. Having been on the other side of things, I may want to avoid changing something after the playtesters have coalesced around some view of what they playtest, but I might talk to the lead designer and my inner circle of players and end up making a Final+6 change because the playtest process overlooked something. Hopefully, I at least notify that I've changed something, unlike other game companies that don't bother telling the playtesters that something was changed to where it's only noticed after printed.

For TD development, I realize what I want is often not going to happen**. In the past, I was more invested in the process for UR+. Now, I try to minimize my expressons of desire as it's just a path to disappointment. Rather, I still find it interesting to see how an alchemical rare damage wheel compares to previous years because that's not going to end up in endless threads that rehash and rehash and rehash.

** For instance, ... you know what, nevermind. Different people like different things.


Any experience I may or may not have with playtesting may or may not be bound under NDA. Your experience may vary from my experience or lack thereof. If I had experienced playtesting, it would have been my experience the most broken game elements in most desperate need of repair experienced the least playtesting (such as having changes made last minute that were then not playtested), so expecting to have every iteration presented to a playtester (not even necessarily the same ones every time) would be reasonable in my opinion.
I play Wizard.

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READ THIS! Change to MEC and Details on Relic & Legendary 1 year 4 months ago #159

Well, that was a long and somewhat exhausting read.

I feel like this latest version of the MEC has gone backwards a step. The HP cost now seems too high to be used by many players in the early Hardcore to early Nightmare range. Perhaps more importantly, it no longer addresses what was seen as the primary design issue with the token that required it to change in the first place. The doubling of base damage.

If this is really the final form of the token, I really hope there will be an option to swap my old MEC for a different UR. I'll just swap for a platinum nugget and move forward. I can stick to hardcore with my wizard and play other classes for nightmare.

If there is still room for adjustment, I think there are several avenues worth considering. The simplest may be to go back to the previous version but add a cap of some kind to the amount of HP that can be spent. (assuming that was the issue with the previous version?) I also think the % HP reduction idea is interesting.

Either way, thanks Jeff for working so hard to take all our various opinions into account. I know it can't be an easy job.

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READ THIS! Change to MEC and Details on Relic & Legendary 1 year 4 months ago #160

payden wrote: To echo some of the other things said in this, I'm not a fan of the new token at all. The fact that the token is not useable out of the pack is really kind of unprecedented to my knowledge - granted I've only been in the game since Deeperdark.

As a wizard, I have always enjoyed the complexity that came with playing the wizard with a MeC. None of the other classes really have that, I'm glad the overall legendary path kept the damage for use, but why in the world is the cost so high? I personally thought increasing the damage to 15 would be enough or the 1/1 hp for dmg boost was fine. This redesign took my favorite token and made it a 1/game effect unless you are steam-rolling the dungeon.

To the people who said you can make a 150hp wizard build, so what? If you make the build and do a bonus 149 pts on damage, great, you hit for barely more than other classes can with a good crit (which is increasingly easy with all of the expanded crit range out there now). Remember that the wizard is never going to get his hp back; no healer is going to push a deluge of heals into the wizard. Plus he dropped all his bonus damage to get to that hp mark so all of his other attacks are going to be super wimpy.

I have issues with some of the powers as well, but I hate the fact that I started out excited to build this legendary token and am now begrudgingly making it since it's the first class legendary for my wizard since I started.

Tl:Dr
-New players can't use it
-hp cost should be brought down to a more manageable 15
-wizard hater's voices are evidently louder than than wizard's
-nerfed the only token that I feel made me viable in nighmare


It's not totally unprecedented that a new player can't use it out of the pack. The original required 20 INT, which I don't think new players would have getting it out of the pack.

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READ THIS! Change to MEC and Details on Relic & Legendary 1 year 4 months ago #161

Mike Steele wrote:

payden wrote: To echo some of the other things said in this, I'm not a fan of the new token at all. The fact that the token is not useable out of the pack is really kind of unprecedented to my knowledge - granted I've only been in the game since Deeperdark.

As a wizard, I have always enjoyed the complexity that came with playing the wizard with a MeC. None of the other classes really have that, I'm glad the overall legendary path kept the damage for use, but why in the world is the cost so high? I personally thought increasing the damage to 15 would be enough or the 1/1 hp for dmg boost was fine. This redesign took my favorite token and made it a 1/game effect unless you are steam-rolling the dungeon.

To the people who said you can make a 150hp wizard build, so what? If you make the build and do a bonus 149 pts on damage, great, you hit for barely more than other classes can with a good crit (which is increasingly easy with all of the expanded crit range out there now). Remember that the wizard is never going to get his hp back; no healer is going to push a deluge of heals into the wizard. Plus he dropped all his bonus damage to get to that hp mark so all of his other attacks are going to be super wimpy.

I have issues with some of the powers as well, but I hate the fact that I started out excited to build this legendary token and am now begrudgingly making it since it's the first class legendary for my wizard since I started.

Tl:Dr
-New players can't use it
-hp cost should be brought down to a more manageable 15
-wizard hater's voices are evidently louder than than wizard's
-nerfed the only token that I feel made me viable in nighmare


It's not totally unprecedented that a new player can't use it out of the pack. The original required 20 INT, which I don't think new players would have getting it out of the pack.

Though true the old version required 1 rare not 2 and a common for the wizard and 2 commons for the elf wizard from the set it was produced in. We all know which is more likely. That is to use it once.
You either discover a star or you don't. You arrogant punk.

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Last edit: by jedibcg.

READ THIS! Change to MEC and Details on Relic & Legendary 1 year 4 months ago #162

Alright, so I'm reaching that point of acceptance where its time to talk how best to use the new wizard tokens.
MEC is partially nerfed. It is what it is. My initial take is this.
First combat room - Never use MEC. The monster is usually dead in a max of two rounds, sometimes one and MEC isn't needed. Use M/AM power or two and minimal healing is needed.
Second combat room - If the run has four combat rooms, probably follow the same strategy as the first combat. If the run only has three combat rooms, combo MEC with Boost and anything else useful in round one and come back with 2 spells using Cabal in round 2. The monster should be pretty weak at this point. A moderate amount of healing will be needed.
In the final combat room, just go all out. If you don't survive you don't survive. It really doesn't matter to me if I channel my hp resource to the point I don't make it. I'm certain I can last at least through round 3 and that should be good enough for me to cast my best options. Again, combo MEC with Boost and anything else useful. Come back with 2 spells using Cabal and the 2 spells using Ring of Spell Storing. At this point you can continue to use MEC until you're under 26 hp. I'm pretty certain I'll get to use it twice in the final room.

Other considerations - Add Fork to your spellcasting if multiple monsters are in the room. Use Intensify and Assure as needed. If those restrictions start popping up in every dungeon, it will have other downstream build consequences. For example, if major fights all have spell resistance then that pretty much nerfs the Cabal Set and Ring of Spell Storing which can't be comboed with Intensify or Assure. That would pretty much suck as even more valuable tokens can just be tossed aside. Yeah, casting two spells gives you a greater chance that one of them will hit, but when you can't combo them with any other ability, they no longer have the impact they used to. You could take those slots and pretty much build "fortress wizard", which will only take damage when channeling their ability. Less fun, but its an option.

So in summary, I can see channeling 10-15 hp in room 1, and the same in room 2 (if the run has 4 combats). I don't see the clerics/druids I run with having an issue with that healing. In the 2nd to last combat room I may need 30-40 hp of healing. That's a fair amount, but at this point you just want to get back to your max in preparation for the final combat. You might need one healing spell during the final combat, but chances are you'll be able to channel 60-90 hp in that final room and possibly still survive.

You may ask, what about damage you take from the monsters? Unless the monsters start getting a lot tougher, that's only an issue in Epic. Even in Nightmare mode, it's not uncommon that the only damage I take for the entire run is from channeling hp into spellcasting or puzzle solve fails.

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READ THIS! Change to MEC and Details on Relic & Legendary 1 year 4 months ago #163

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Dave wrote: Alright, so I'm reaching that point of acceptance where its time to talk how best to use the new wizard tokens.
MEC is partially nerfed. It is what it is. My initial take is this.
First combat room - Never use MEC. The monster is usually dead in a max of two rounds, sometimes one and MEC isn't needed. Use M/AM power or two and minimal healing is needed.
Second combat room - If the run has four combat rooms, probably follow the same strategy as the first combat. If the run only has three combat rooms, combo MEC with Boost and anything else useful in round one and come back with 2 spells using Cabal in round 2. The monster should be pretty weak at this point. A moderate amount of healing will be needed.
In the final combat room, just go all out. If you don't survive you don't survive. It really doesn't matter to me if I channel my hp resource to the point I don't make it. I'm certain I can last at least through round 3 and that should be good enough for me to cast my best options. Again, combo MEC with Boost and anything else useful. Come back with 2 spells using Cabal and the 2 spells using Ring of Spell Storing. At this point you can continue to use MEC until you're under 26 hp. I'm pretty certain I'll get to use it twice in the final room.

Other considerations - Add Fork to your spellcasting if multiple monsters are in the room. Use Intensify and Assure as needed. If those restrictions start popping up in every dungeon, it will have other downstream build consequences. For example, if major fights all have spell resistance then that pretty much nerfs the Cabal Set and Ring of Spell Storing which can't be comboed with Intensify or Assure. That would pretty much suck as even more valuable tokens can just be tossed aside. Yeah, casting two spells gives you a greater chance that one of them will hit, but when you can't combo them with any other ability, they no longer have the impact they used to. You could take those slots and pretty much build "fortress wizard", which will only take damage when channeling their ability. Less fun, but its an option.

So in summary, I can see channeling 10-15 hp in room 1, and the same in room 2 (if the run has 4 combats). I don't see the clerics/druids I run with having an issue with that healing. In the 2nd to last combat room I may need 30-40 hp of healing. That's a fair amount, but at this point you just want to get back to your max in preparation for the final combat. You might need one healing spell during the final combat, but chances are you'll be able to channel 60-90 hp in that final room and possibly still survive.

You may ask, what about damage you take from the monsters? Unless the monsters start getting a lot tougher, that's only an issue in Epic. Even in Nightmare mode, it's not uncommon that the only damage I take for the entire run is from channeling hp into spellcasting or puzzle solve fails.

N&N has shown a new direction towards mobs doing automatic AE damage instead of basic attacks, so I'm not sure that we can count on avoiding combat damage as wizards anymore. I'm guessing Charm of Broaching with Shadowskin and either Elm or a save cloak is going to be more and more important combo to give MEC wizards a solid chance of surviving to the final room at higher difficulties, especially since that means healing will be spread even more thinly.

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READ THIS! Change to MEC and Details on Relic & Legendary 1 year 4 months ago #164

NightGod wrote:

Dave wrote: Alright, so I'm reaching that point of acceptance where its time to talk how best to use the new wizard tokens.
MEC is partially nerfed. It is what it is. My initial take is this.
First combat room - Never use MEC. The monster is usually dead in a max of two rounds, sometimes one and MEC isn't needed. Use M/AM power or two and minimal healing is needed.
Second combat room - If the run has four combat rooms, probably follow the same strategy as the first combat. If the run only has three combat rooms, combo MEC with Boost and anything else useful in round one and come back with 2 spells using Cabal in round 2. The monster should be pretty weak at this point. A moderate amount of healing will be needed.
In the final combat room, just go all out. If you don't survive you don't survive. It really doesn't matter to me if I channel my hp resource to the point I don't make it. I'm certain I can last at least through round 3 and that should be good enough for me to cast my best options. Again, combo MEC with Boost and anything else useful. Come back with 2 spells using Cabal and the 2 spells using Ring of Spell Storing. At this point you can continue to use MEC until you're under 26 hp. I'm pretty certain I'll get to use it twice in the final room.

Other considerations - Add Fork to your spellcasting if multiple monsters are in the room. Use Intensify and Assure as needed. If those restrictions start popping up in every dungeon, it will have other downstream build consequences. For example, if major fights all have spell resistance then that pretty much nerfs the Cabal Set and Ring of Spell Storing which can't be comboed with Intensify or Assure. That would pretty much suck as even more valuable tokens can just be tossed aside. Yeah, casting two spells gives you a greater chance that one of them will hit, but when you can't combo them with any other ability, they no longer have the impact they used to. You could take those slots and pretty much build "fortress wizard", which will only take damage when channeling their ability. Less fun, but its an option.

So in summary, I can see channeling 10-15 hp in room 1, and the same in room 2 (if the run has 4 combats). I don't see the clerics/druids I run with having an issue with that healing. In the 2nd to last combat room I may need 30-40 hp of healing. That's a fair amount, but at this point you just want to get back to your max in preparation for the final combat. You might need one healing spell during the final combat, but chances are you'll be able to channel 60-90 hp in that final room and possibly still survive.

You may ask, what about damage you take from the monsters? Unless the monsters start getting a lot tougher, that's only an issue in Epic. Even in Nightmare mode, it's not uncommon that the only damage I take for the entire run is from channeling hp into spellcasting or puzzle solve fails.

N&N has shown a new direction towards mobs doing automatic AE damage instead of basic attacks, so I'm not sure that we can count on avoiding combat damage as wizards anymore. I'm guessing Charm of Broaching with Shadowskin and either Elm or a save cloak is going to be more and more important combo to give MEC wizards a solid chance of surviving to the final room at higher difficulties, especially since that means healing will be spread even more thinly.


You're exactly right. But there are many tokens that help mitigate damage and if you get hit with a big enough total, that's where absorb can be used once in the room. I'm currently playing with builds and I have options to consider. Basically, my tradeoffs are between spell damage, saving throws and hp.

Based upon my decisions
Spell damage will be 25 to 30.
Saving throws will be 17/17/13 to 23/25/21
HP will be 61 to 96

Decisions come down to
Ear - Inspiration or Orbits (will probably go with Inspiration, but if there is no Bard or Bard isn't 5th level then Orbits)
IS - Elfstone Shard, Charming Cabochon (with 6 charms equipped), Garnet Cube, Tanzanite Cube, Topaz Trilliant (pick 3 or pick all 5 if you go with Earcuff of Orbits)
Eyes - Lenses of Focus or Psyferre's
Bead - Lucky Traveler or Master Ale Drinkers
Back - Pharacus, Greater Cloak of Destiny, Cloak of the Elm, Shadowskin (pick 2)

Decisions Made (for now)
Orion's Belt over Arcane Belt - 3 more slots that can help with hp or saves is too much to give up for 2 damage
Sticking with Cabal set for now, but if Quicken meets my 2 spell per round needs this would free up even more slots. I'd add Charm Bracelet and end up with 3 more charm slots, while also adding Blessed Tempest Gloves for 3 more spell damage (less 1 damage for losing Cabal Bracelet).
Semi-Lich skull and 7 teeth over Skull of Cavadar
Other Slots are pretty locked without question (not going to list them all)

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Last edit: by Dave.

READ THIS! Change to MEC and Details on Relic & Legendary 1 year 4 months ago #165

Forgive me if I am misinterpreting your comments Dave but it sounds like the new version of the Mad Evoker's Charm is causing you to abandon spell damage for saves and HP. That seems like the opposite direction of a glass canon design. Would you agree that this version of the token is pushing your build away from maximizing damage due to the sheer HP costs?

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READ THIS! Change to MEC and Details on Relic & Legendary 1 year 4 months ago #166

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Dave wrote:

NightGod wrote:

Dave wrote: Alright, so I'm reaching that point of acceptance where its time to talk how best to use the new wizard tokens.
MEC is partially nerfed. It is what it is. My initial take is this.
First combat room - Never use MEC. The monster is usually dead in a max of two rounds, sometimes one and MEC isn't needed. Use M/AM power or two and minimal healing is needed.
Second combat room - If the run has four combat rooms, probably follow the same strategy as the first combat. If the run only has three combat rooms, combo MEC with Boost and anything else useful in round one and come back with 2 spells using Cabal in round 2. The monster should be pretty weak at this point. A moderate amount of healing will be needed.
In the final combat room, just go all out. If you don't survive you don't survive. It really doesn't matter to me if I channel my hp resource to the point I don't make it. I'm certain I can last at least through round 3 and that should be good enough for me to cast my best options. Again, combo MEC with Boost and anything else useful. Come back with 2 spells using Cabal and the 2 spells using Ring of Spell Storing. At this point you can continue to use MEC until you're under 26 hp. I'm pretty certain I'll get to use it twice in the final room.

Other considerations - Add Fork to your spellcasting if multiple monsters are in the room. Use Intensify and Assure as needed. If those restrictions start popping up in every dungeon, it will have other downstream build consequences. For example, if major fights all have spell resistance then that pretty much nerfs the Cabal Set and Ring of Spell Storing which can't be comboed with Intensify or Assure. That would pretty much suck as even more valuable tokens can just be tossed aside. Yeah, casting two spells gives you a greater chance that one of them will hit, but when you can't combo them with any other ability, they no longer have the impact they used to. You could take those slots and pretty much build "fortress wizard", which will only take damage when channeling their ability. Less fun, but its an option.

So in summary, I can see channeling 10-15 hp in room 1, and the same in room 2 (if the run has 4 combats). I don't see the clerics/druids I run with having an issue with that healing. In the 2nd to last combat room I may need 30-40 hp of healing. That's a fair amount, but at this point you just want to get back to your max in preparation for the final combat. You might need one healing spell during the final combat, but chances are you'll be able to channel 60-90 hp in that final room and possibly still survive.

You may ask, what about damage you take from the monsters? Unless the monsters start getting a lot tougher, that's only an issue in Epic. Even in Nightmare mode, it's not uncommon that the only damage I take for the entire run is from channeling hp into spellcasting or puzzle solve fails.

N&N has shown a new direction towards mobs doing automatic AE damage instead of basic attacks, so I'm not sure that we can count on avoiding combat damage as wizards anymore. I'm guessing Charm of Broaching with Shadowskin and either Elm or a save cloak is going to be more and more important combo to give MEC wizards a solid chance of surviving to the final room at higher difficulties, especially since that means healing will be spread even more thinly.


You're exactly right. But there are many tokens that help mitigate damage and if you get hit with a big enough total, that's where absorb can be used once in the room. I'm currently playing with builds and I have options to consider. Basically, my tradeoffs are between spell damage, saving throws and hp.

Based upon my decisions
Spell damage will be 25 to 30.
Saving throws will be 17/17/13 to 23/25/21
HP will be 61 to 96

Decisions come down to
Ear - Inspiration or Orbits (will probably go with Inspiration, but if there is no Bard or Bard isn't 5th level then Orbits)
IS - Elfstone Shard, Charming Cabochon (with 6 charms equipped), Garnet Cube, Tanzanite Cube, Topaz Trilliant (pick 3 or pick all 5 if you go with Earcuff of Orbits)
Eyes - Lenses of Focus or Psyferre's
Bead - Lucky Traveler or Master Ale Drinkers
Back - Pharacus, Greater Cloak of Destiny, Cloak of the Elm, Shadowskin (pick 2)

Decisions Made (for now)
Orion's Belt over Arcane Belt - 3 more slots that can help with hp or saves is too much to give up for 2 damage
Sticking with Cabal set for now, but if Quicken meets my 2 spell per round needs this would free up even more slots. I'd add Charm Bracelet and end up with 3 more charm slots, while also adding Blessed Tempest Gloves for 3 more spell damage (less 1 damage for losing Cabal Bracelet).
Semi-Lich skull and 7 teeth over Skull of Cavadar
Other Slots are pretty locked without question (not going to list them all)

What damage reduction options do we have that fit in with your build plans? I can think of things like Kvothe's, but that's spell/missle damage only, so would have helped for the Ogre Mage fireball in N&N and maybe Entity 513's attacks if they were considered spell damage and not just electrical attacks (which I don't think is the case). Other than incidental pieces, I don't know of much room in the builds for DR.

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READ THIS! Change to MEC and Details on Relic & Legendary 1 year 4 months ago #167

NightGod wrote:

Dave wrote:

NightGod wrote:

Dave wrote: Alright, so I'm reaching that point of acceptance where its time to talk how best to use the new wizard tokens.
MEC is partially nerfed. It is what it is. My initial take is this.
First combat room - Never use MEC. The monster is usually dead in a max of two rounds, sometimes one and MEC isn't needed. Use M/AM power or two and minimal healing is needed.
Second combat room - If the run has four combat rooms, probably follow the same strategy as the first combat. If the run only has three combat rooms, combo MEC with Boost and anything else useful in round one and come back with 2 spells using Cabal in round 2. The monster should be pretty weak at this point. A moderate amount of healing will be needed.
In the final combat room, just go all out. If you don't survive you don't survive. It really doesn't matter to me if I channel my hp resource to the point I don't make it. I'm certain I can last at least through round 3 and that should be good enough for me to cast my best options. Again, combo MEC with Boost and anything else useful. Come back with 2 spells using Cabal and the 2 spells using Ring of Spell Storing. At this point you can continue to use MEC until you're under 26 hp. I'm pretty certain I'll get to use it twice in the final room.

Other considerations - Add Fork to your spellcasting if multiple monsters are in the room. Use Intensify and Assure as needed. If those restrictions start popping up in every dungeon, it will have other downstream build consequences. For example, if major fights all have spell resistance then that pretty much nerfs the Cabal Set and Ring of Spell Storing which can't be comboed with Intensify or Assure. That would pretty much suck as even more valuable tokens can just be tossed aside. Yeah, casting two spells gives you a greater chance that one of them will hit, but when you can't combo them with any other ability, they no longer have the impact they used to. You could take those slots and pretty much build "fortress wizard", which will only take damage when channeling their ability. Less fun, but its an option.

So in summary, I can see channeling 10-15 hp in room 1, and the same in room 2 (if the run has 4 combats). I don't see the clerics/druids I run with having an issue with that healing. In the 2nd to last combat room I may need 30-40 hp of healing. That's a fair amount, but at this point you just want to get back to your max in preparation for the final combat. You might need one healing spell during the final combat, but chances are you'll be able to channel 60-90 hp in that final room and possibly still survive.

You may ask, what about damage you take from the monsters? Unless the monsters start getting a lot tougher, that's only an issue in Epic. Even in Nightmare mode, it's not uncommon that the only damage I take for the entire run is from channeling hp into spellcasting or puzzle solve fails.

N&N has shown a new direction towards mobs doing automatic AE damage instead of basic attacks, so I'm not sure that we can count on avoiding combat damage as wizards anymore. I'm guessing Charm of Broaching with Shadowskin and either Elm or a save cloak is going to be more and more important combo to give MEC wizards a solid chance of surviving to the final room at higher difficulties, especially since that means healing will be spread even more thinly.


You're exactly right. But there are many tokens that help mitigate damage and if you get hit with a big enough total, that's where absorb can be used once in the room. I'm currently playing with builds and I have options to consider. Basically, my tradeoffs are between spell damage, saving throws and hp.

Based upon my decisions
Spell damage will be 25 to 30.
Saving throws will be 17/17/13 to 23/25/21
HP will be 61 to 96

Decisions come down to
Ear - Inspiration or Orbits (will probably go with Inspiration, but if there is no Bard or Bard isn't 5th level then Orbits)
IS - Elfstone Shard, Charming Cabochon (with 6 charms equipped), Garnet Cube, Tanzanite Cube, Topaz Trilliant (pick 3 or pick all 5 if you go with Earcuff of Orbits)
Eyes - Lenses of Focus or Psyferre's
Bead - Lucky Traveler or Master Ale Drinkers
Back - Pharacus, Greater Cloak of Destiny, Cloak of the Elm, Shadowskin (pick 2)

Decisions Made (for now)
Orion's Belt over Arcane Belt - 3 more slots that can help with hp or saves is too much to give up for 2 damage
Sticking with Cabal set for now, but if Quicken meets my 2 spell per round needs this would free up even more slots. I'd add Charm Bracelet and end up with 3 more charm slots, while also adding Blessed Tempest Gloves for 3 more spell damage (less 1 damage for losing Cabal Bracelet).
Semi-Lich skull and 7 teeth over Skull of Cavadar
Other Slots are pretty locked without question (not going to list them all)

What damage reduction options do we have that fit in with your build plans? I can think of things like Kvothe's, but that's spell/missle damage only, so would have helped for the Ogre Mage fireball in N&N and maybe Entity 513's attacks if they were considered spell damage and not just electrical attacks (which I don't think is the case). Other than incidental pieces, I don't know of much room in the builds for DR.


Supreme Ring of Elemental Command is huge. I know sometimes TD likes to create exotic damage types to minimize the impact of this ring, but doing so nerfs over 50 tokens that mitigate fire, cold, shock or sonic which creates a lot of negative feedback. So this ring helps a lot. And then I do have Odin's medallion which lowers everything except eldritch by 2.

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READ THIS! Change to MEC and Details on Relic & Legendary 1 year 4 months ago #168

Dave wrote: Supreme Ring of Elemental Command is huge. I know sometimes TD likes to create exotic damage types to minimize the impact of this ring, but doing so nerfs over 50 tokens that mitigate fire, cold, shock or sonic which creates a lot of negative feedback. So this ring helps a lot. And then I do have Odin's medallion which lowers everything except eldritch by 2.


I agree with this observation. I am not a fan of exotic damage types (including the over use of eldritch damage) at NM and Epic level as it removes what should be viable build options. If you can't reduce the damage why add damage reduction to your build?

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