TOPIC: Last Second Changes Made - Sorry! FINAL Contact Sheets

Endgame wrote: Party wise, probably need to leave the Fighters at home, given they are likely to be the bottom rung of damage dealer?

Sad face.

I was thinking the same thing.

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Jeff, Wizard tokens - Good revision. Cleaner. Please consider removing the #/room from the relic/legendary - these can more easily be explained on the Mage Power / Arch Mage Power tokens and/or tokendb. Simpler and easier future changes. Extensible/scalable.

kurtreznor wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: Thanks, Jeff, I think those changes were needed, I'm glad you had time to make them.

Looking at the new Wizard tokens, and going with the assumption Jeff gave us that Wizard spells will double in damage on the spell card:

Even with the new tokens, if the spell damage is doubled, if the Wizard has 51 HP (and I'm sure the Wizard can go a lot higher than 51 HP since 25 HP bonuses are available from this set alone), 35 bonus spell damage, the MEC and the Ring of Spell Storing, the Wizard can do this on the first round:

Cast Lightning Storm for 40 points, add 35 bonus spell damage, channel MEC for 50 points, for 125 damage.
Cast via Ring of Spell Storing Lightning Storm for 40 points and 35 bonus spell damage for 75 points of damage.
Combining those two, the Wizard can do 200 points of damage in the first turn.  With both Wizards, you're looking at 400 points of damage in just the first round of combat, and that doesn't require the Wizard Class Relic or Legendary, just the MEC.  160 points of that would be damage to all monsters while I'm assuming the 100 MEC damage plus 140 bonus spell damage would be pool damage (I'm not 100% sure if that bonus damage is pool or to all monsters).

Looking at the Infernal Redoubt module, that means that the two Wizards by themselves can kill the Mindslayer or Fire Fiend on Nightmare mode (400 HP) by themselves on round one.  A Single Wizard could kill the Mindslayer in Normal mode (200 HP) by himself on Round 1.  Also since it is an area attack spell, in Room 7 the two Wizards could not only kill the Mind Slayer on round 1 in Nightmare, they would also do 160 of the 500 damage needed to kill Blackthorn in Round 1. That is 560 damage by the two Wizards in Round 1 of the final room.

That is a lot of damage.... I guess monster hp will need to at least double or triple to compensate? Will party comp need to adjust to run double wizard then, and need both cleric and druid to fuel the hp loss?

I was gonna comment how this max damage isn't sustainable for the wizard; it is unrealistic and disingenuous to expect the wizard to deal this much damage every round...

And then I thought; if a party decides to coordinate the actions of at least half the party, to work together as a single unit, in order to have certain characters deal crazy good damage while others are supporting them/making it even possible...well then, I think Jeff is gonna call that mission frakking accomplished!

No other party members have to have any involvement whatsoever for the Wizards to do 400 damage to a monster in round one plus 160 to all other monsters. The Cleric alone using Resurrection and Free Action healing could heal one Wizard fully for a MEC recharge and the other significantly. I'm not sure what you mean about at least half of the party having to work together to make it happen.

Mike Steele wrote:

kurtreznor wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: Thanks, Jeff, I think those changes were needed, I'm glad you had time to make them.

Looking at the new Wizard tokens, and going with the assumption Jeff gave us that Wizard spells will double in damage on the spell card:

Even with the new tokens, if the spell damage is doubled, if the Wizard has 51 HP (and I'm sure the Wizard can go a lot higher than 51 HP since 25 HP bonuses are available from this set alone), 35 bonus spell damage, the MEC and the Ring of Spell Storing, the Wizard can do this on the first round:

Cast Lightning Storm for 40 points, add 35 bonus spell damage, channel MEC for 50 points, for 125 damage.
Cast via Ring of Spell Storing Lightning Storm for 40 points and 35 bonus spell damage for 75 points of damage.
Combining those two, the Wizard can do 200 points of damage in the first turn.  With both Wizards, you're looking at 400 points of damage in just the first round of combat, and that doesn't require the Wizard Class Relic or Legendary, just the MEC.  160 points of that would be damage to all monsters while I'm assuming the 100 MEC damage plus 140 bonus spell damage would be pool damage (I'm not 100% sure if that bonus damage is pool or to all monsters).

Looking at the Infernal Redoubt module, that means that the two Wizards by themselves can kill the Mindslayer or Fire Fiend on Nightmare mode (400 HP) by themselves on round one.  A Single Wizard could kill the Mindslayer in Normal mode (200 HP) by himself on Round 1.  Also since it is an area attack spell, in Room 7 the two Wizards could not only kill the Mind Slayer on round 1 in Nightmare, they would also do 160 of the 500 damage needed to kill Blackthorn in Round 1. That is 560 damage by the two Wizards in Round 1 of the final room.

That is a lot of damage.... I guess monster hp will need to at least double or triple to compensate? Will party comp need to adjust to run double wizard then, and need both cleric and druid to fuel the hp loss?

I was gonna comment how this max damage isn't sustainable for the wizard; it is unrealistic and disingenuous to expect the wizard to deal this much damage every round...

And then I thought; if a party decides to coordinate the actions of at least half the party, to work together as a single unit, in order to have certain characters deal crazy good damage while others are supporting them/making it even possible...well then, I think Jeff is gonna call that mission frakking accomplished!

No other party members have to have any involvement whatsoever for the Wizards to do 400 damage to a monster in round one plus 160 to all other monsters. The Cleric alone using Resurrection and Free Action healing could heal one Wizard fully for a MEC recharge and the other significantly. I'm not sure what you mean about at least half of the party having to work together to make it happen.

Given the one pug I was with a few years back, it would be something like:

Hey guys, maybe wait on sliding for a second? We will probably kill the monsters on our own.

Question - I didn't see the answer to this in the Player's Handbook (I probably just missed it), but I figure the Wizard players would know. When a Wizard casts Lightning Storm which damages all monsters, is the Bonus Spell Damage (like from Focus tokens) added to the damage each monster takes, or is it a pool divided among all the monsters?

Mike Steele wrote: Question - I didn't see the answer to this in the Player's Handbook (I probably just missed it), but I figure the Wizard players would know. When a Wizard casts Lightning Storm which damages all monsters, is the Bonus Spell Damage (like from Focus tokens) added to the damage each monster takes, or is it a pool divided among all the monsters?

Pool

Endgame wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: Question - I didn't see the answer to this in the Player's Handbook (I probably just missed it), but I figure the Wizard players would know. When a Wizard casts Lightning Storm which damages all monsters, is the Bonus Spell Damage (like from Focus tokens) added to the damage each monster takes, or is it a pool divided among all the monsters?

Pool

Thanks! I knew the MEC damage was a pool, I wasn't sure of the rest.

Mike Steele wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: Question - I didn't see the answer to this in the Player's Handbook (I probably just missed it), but I figure the Wizard players would know. When a Wizard casts Lightning Storm which damages all monsters, is the Bonus Spell Damage (like from Focus tokens) added to the damage each monster takes, or is it a pool divided among all the monsters?

Pool

Thanks! I knew the MEC damage was a pool, I wasn't sure of the rest.

Mad evoker use to double base damage plus skill check before it was chsnged....base was dealt to all monsters plus spell damage from focus items was a pool to be dealt. Now this will probably change with the revisions.

Lequinian wrote:

Endgame wrote: Party wise, probably need to leave the Fighters at home, given they are likely to be the bottom rung of damage dealer?

Sad face.

I was thinking the same thing..

And here we are

Adam Guay wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: Question - I didn't see the answer to this in the Player's Handbook (I probably just missed it), but I figure the Wizard players would know. When a Wizard casts Lightning Storm which damages all monsters, is the Bonus Spell Damage (like from Focus tokens) added to the damage each monster takes, or is it a pool divided among all the monsters?

Pool

Thanks! I knew the MEC damage was a pool, I wasn't sure of the rest.

Mad evoker use to double base damage plus skill check before it was chsnged....base was dealt to all monsters plus spell damage from focus items was a pool to be dealt. Now this will probably change with the revisions.

Maybe one of the mage powers or archmage powers can be to apply bonus damage to all targets instead of as a pool.

kurtreznor wrote:

Adam Guay wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: Question - I didn't see the answer to this in the Player's Handbook (I probably just missed it), but I figure the Wizard players would know. When a Wizard casts Lightning Storm which damages all monsters, is the Bonus Spell Damage (like from Focus tokens) added to the damage each monster takes, or is it a pool divided among all the monsters?

Pool

Thanks! I knew the MEC damage was a pool, I wasn't sure of the rest.

Mad evoker use to double base damage plus skill check before it was chsnged....base was dealt to all monsters plus spell damage from focus items was a pool to be dealt. Now this will probably change with the revisions.

Maybe one of the mage powers or archmage powers can be to apply bonus damage to all targets instead of as a pool.

That would be a good but pricey option if used on a third level spell. I would like to see powers set to a certain hp amount not based on spell level.

Mike Steele wrote: Even with the new tokens, if the spell damage is doubled, if the Wizard has 51 HP (and I'm sure the Wizard can go a lot higher than 51 HP since 25 HP bonuses are available from this set alone), 35 bonus spell damage, the MEC and the Ring of Spell Storing, the Wizard can do this on the first round:

Cast Lightning Storm for 40 points, add 35 bonus spell damage, channel MEC for 50 points, for 125 damage.
Cast via Ring of Spell Storing Lightning Storm for 40 points and 35 bonus spell damage for 75 points of damage.
Combining those two, the Wizard can do 200 points of damage in the first turn.  With both Wizards, you're looking at 400 points of damage in just the first round of combat, and that doesn't require the Wizard Class Relic or Legendary, just the MEC.  160 points of that would be damage to all monsters while I'm assuming the 100 MEC damage plus 140 bonus spell damage would be pool damage (I'm not 100% sure if that bonus damage is pool or to all monsters).

Looking at the Infernal Redoubt module, that means that the two Wizards by themselves can kill the Mindslayer or Fire Fiend on Nightmare mode (400 HP) by themselves on round one.  A Single Wizard could kill the Mindslayer in Normal mode (200 HP) by himself on Round 1.  Also since it is an area attack spell, in Room 7 the two Wizards could not only kill the Mind Slayer on round 1 in Nightmare, they would also do 160 of the 500 damage needed to kill Blackthorn in Round 1. That is 560 damage by the two Wizards in Round 1 of the final room.

Given the assumptions made about gear, its probably unfair to assume the given example wizards are running anything less then epic. offhand to hit that 35 number you have all the eldritch items equipped, along with at least 2 legendarys to hit that number? We're way past nightmare by that point I would hope. So yes. this doesnt require the class legendary. Just MEC. And two other legendarys. and all of the eldritch items. and some other large number of ultra rare tokens to get your spell damage to +35

Here is a radical idea. We have VTD. It wouldn’t be that hard to play test this stuff.