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TOPIC: SUPER Final Ultra Rare Images

SUPER Final Ultra Rare Images <Last Chance! 9 months 2 weeks ago #61

Jeff Martin wrote: So...I thought it was best to wait until next year for the Earcuff of Orbits...what with the re-printing of the Mad Evoker's Charm. I am sorry if you are disappointed. I added some cool armor that you might see later...in "person". Thanks!

truedungeon.com/files/UltraRare2021.jpg


Sad about the Earcuff of Orbits. It will have a componding effect and significant my reduce what I buy this year unfortunately as I won't be able to use the extra tokens until I can get it at a reasonable price.

Really love the Death Armor, it makes me want to hold off from buying the lucky armor in the hopes of a dark themed armor usable by Rogues. Rogues have very limited options for UR Armor where some of these other classes have a plethora of choices.

I will remember this for next year, maybe do a +1 STR usable by other classes with lower AC with a dark theme like that. I like being able to theme out a character with a chaotic or evil alignment.
Last edit: by Guedoji.
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SUPER Final Ultra Rare Images <Last Chance! 9 months 2 weeks ago #62

JACKOFTRADZE wrote: I agree on holding back the Earcuffs, the new armor is cool a little OP but nice. Were Death Knights Ballerina's in life? The art is for the token is....interesting....

What is OP about the Death Knight Armor?

It’s rare Powered plate with +2 AC and +1 to hit. Feels about right for an upgrade
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SUPER Final Ultra Rare Images <Last Chance! 9 months 2 weeks ago #63

Endgame wrote:

JACKOFTRADZE wrote: I agree on holding back the Earcuffs, the new armor is cool a little OP but nice. Were Death Knights Ballerina's in life? The art is for the token is....interesting....

What is OP about the Death Knight Armor?

It’s rare Powered plate with +2 AC and +1 to hit. Feels about right for an upgrade


And plus one to damage.

The Relic Blessed Redoubt Plate is only 2 AC better and no strength bonus. If you had a choice between 2 AC or 2 STR for a fighter/Cleric class which would you take? If you take the strength then the UR Token is actually better than the Relic. If you think it's a wash then the UR is equal to a Relic. Which is why I think it's overpowered.
"Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world." - Albert Einstein
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SUPER Final Ultra Rare Images <Last Chance! 9 months 2 weeks ago #64

Rob F wrote:

Endgame wrote:

JACKOFTRADZE wrote: I agree on holding back the Earcuffs, the new armor is cool a little OP but nice. Were Death Knights Ballerina's in life? The art is for the token is....interesting....

What is OP about the Death Knight Armor?

It’s rare Powered plate with +2 AC and +1 to hit. Feels about right for an upgrade


And plus one to damage.

The Relic Blessed Redoubt Plate is only 2 AC better and no strength bonus. If you had a choice between 2 AC or 2 STR for a fighter/Cleric class which would you take? If you take the strength then the UR Token is actually better than the Relic. If you think it's a wash then the UR is equal to a Relic. Which is why I think it's overpowered.


Rob, based on that I agree, it does look overpowered. The Relic should be a clear power upgrade over the UR, and as a Fighter I'd pick the UR instead.
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SUPER Final Ultra Rare Images <Last Chance! 9 months 2 weeks ago #65

Rob F wrote:

Endgame wrote:

JACKOFTRADZE wrote: I agree on holding back the Earcuffs, the new armor is cool a little OP but nice. Were Death Knights Ballerina's in life? The art is for the token is....interesting....

What is OP about the Death Knight Armor?

It’s rare Powered plate with +2 AC and +1 to hit. Feels about right for an upgrade


And plus one to damage.

The Relic Blessed Redoubt Plate is only 2 AC better and no strength bonus. If you had a choice between 2 AC or 2 STR for a fighter/Cleric class which would you take? If you take the strength then the UR Token is actually better than the Relic. If you think it's a wash then the UR is equal to a Relic. Which is why I think it's overpowered.


Based on the discussions from last year around the lucky items I think the real issue is that the Relic Blessed Redoubt items are slightly under powered. Fortunately they can be transmuted. I don’t think they should be used to evaluate UR armor.
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SUPER Final Ultra Rare Images <Last Chance! 9 months 2 weeks ago #66

Dave wrote:

Fiddy wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Fiddy wrote:

OrionW wrote: I think it was last year that Jeff said he wanted items that allowed new players to have items that allowed new players to feel like they had good equipment choices. I think the armor is is a good place for this. It gives a newish player excited about the fighter legendary path a solid armor token to use.


Lucky Plate will still be available as a PYP. It might be better to wait a year so Lucky Plate is out of print rather than having two heavy UR armors in print at same time.

This is a fair point - what slot hasn’t has a UR this year or last.


Unless my TokenDB-fu is failing me, Hands had no URs in 2019 or 2020, and the ones currently in 2021 are melee focused.

I'm not saying it'd be awesome to reprint Gloves of the Cabal (maybe with a small boost of +2 damage with scrolls), but it'd be awesome to reprint Gloves of the Cabal (maybe with a small boost of +2 damage with scrolls).


+1 to bringing back and possibly cleaning up Cabal items.


+2
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SUPER Final Ultra Rare Images <Last Chance! 9 months 2 weeks ago #67

Mike Steele wrote:

Rob F wrote:

Endgame wrote:

JACKOFTRADZE wrote: I agree on holding back the Earcuffs, the new armor is cool a little OP but nice. Were Death Knights Ballerina's in life? The art is for the token is....interesting....

What is OP about the Death Knight Armor?

It’s rare Powered plate with +2 AC and +1 to hit. Feels about right for an upgrade


And plus one to damage.

The Relic Blessed Redoubt Plate is only 2 AC better and no strength bonus. If you had a choice between 2 AC or 2 STR for a fighter/Cleric class which would you take? If you take the strength then the UR Token is actually better than the Relic. If you think it's a wash then the UR is equal to a Relic. Which is why I think it's overpowered.


Rob, based on that I agree, it does look overpowered. The Relic should be a clear power upgrade over the UR, and as a Fighter I'd pick the UR instead.


Or just take Clerics off and leave the rest of it alone. Theoretically, Fighters are supposed to have the best armor, so give them this. And a few years down the road
do a Fighter-only Relic/Legendary armor set that exceeds Redoubt.
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SUPER Final Ultra Rare Images <Last Chance! 9 months 2 weeks ago #68

Matthew Hayward wrote:

kurtreznor wrote: Mad evoker charm went back to the not-clear version: does 1/room apply only to the mage power/free action effect? Can you pay life multiple times to boost spell damage?


On tokens when two effects have different duration or frequencies the effects are normally separated by an ampersand.

For example Cleric Relic Sacred Necklace says:

"May cast 2nd-lvl Spells or Resore Spell as Free Actions & may heal a target ally to full hp-even if that character is dead (1/game)"

Which we all understand to restrict the resurrection ability to 1/game but not the 2nd level spells as free actions ability.

It seems to me that the entire MeC power, whether or not it triggers the Mage Power threshold, may be used only 1/room.

I've been wrong before though about how to interpret a token....


Ok, taken in that context, it makes sense. But it would be nice to make it more clear that life payment is 1/room THEN check if 15+ life was spent for bonus.

As an UR, this is fine, as it allows one big burst each combat. BUT if the relic/legendary only allows boosting spell damage 1/room, those are very weak.
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SUPER Final Ultra Rare Images <Last Chance! 9 months 2 weeks ago #69

Rob F wrote:

Endgame wrote:

JACKOFTRADZE wrote: I agree on holding back the Earcuffs, the new armor is cool a little OP but nice. Were Death Knights Ballerina's in life? The art is for the token is....interesting....

What is OP about the Death Knight Armor?

It’s rare Powered plate with +2 AC and +1 to hit. Feels about right for an upgrade


And plus one to damage.

The Relic Blessed Redoubt Plate is only 2 AC better and no strength bonus. If you had a choice between 2 AC or 2 STR for a fighter/Cleric class which would you take? If you take the strength then the UR Token is actually better than the Relic. If you think it's a wash then the UR is equal to a Relic. Which is why I think it's overpowered.


FYI, powered plate is 7ac and +1 melee damage.

tokendb.com/token/powered-plate-mail/

Our group Fighter Build has been using this since roughly 2017.

All that is different is the ac and +hit.

That said, making it only 8 ac would be fine, but even you dismiss the AC value, so I’m not sure it matters.
Last edit: by Endgame.
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SUPER Final Ultra Rare Images <Last Chance! 9 months 2 weeks ago #70

kurtreznor wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

kurtreznor wrote: Mad evoker charm went back to the not-clear version: does 1/room apply only to the mage power/free action effect? Can you pay life multiple times to boost spell damage?


On tokens when two effects have different duration or frequencies the effects are normally separated by an ampersand.

For example Cleric Relic Sacred Necklace says:

"May cast 2nd-lvl Spells or Resore Spell as Free Actions & may heal a target ally to full hp-even if that character is dead (1/game)"

Which we all understand to restrict the resurrection ability to 1/game but not the 2nd level spells as free actions ability.

It seems to me that the entire MeC power, whether or not it triggers the Mage Power threshold, may be used only 1/room.

I've been wrong before though about how to interpret a token....


Ok, taken in that context, it makes sense. But it would be nice to make it more clear that life payment is 1/room THEN check if 15+ life was spent for bonus.

As an UR, this is fine, as it allows one big burst each combat. BUT if the relic/legendary only allows boosting spell damage 1/room, those are very weak.


Maybe add a keyword 'channel'
Channel: for every 1hp you channel into a spell, gain 1pt damage to that spell. If you spend 15+, also use a Mage power.

Then the MEC could read:
Gain channel 1/room
Gain mage power: cast spell as free action. 1/room.

Then the relic and legendary can add more uses of channel and gain other mage powers.
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SUPER Final Ultra Rare Images <Last Chance! 9 months 2 weeks ago #71

kurtreznor wrote:

kurtreznor wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

kurtreznor wrote: Mad evoker charm went back to the not-clear version: does 1/room apply only to the mage power/free action effect? Can you pay life multiple times to boost spell damage?


On tokens when two effects have different duration or frequencies the effects are normally separated by an ampersand.

For example Cleric Relic Sacred Necklace says:

"May cast 2nd-lvl Spells or Resore Spell as Free Actions & may heal a target ally to full hp-even if that character is dead (1/game)"

Which we all understand to restrict the resurrection ability to 1/game but not the 2nd level spells as free actions ability.

It seems to me that the entire MeC power, whether or not it triggers the Mage Power threshold, may be used only 1/room.

I've been wrong before though about how to interpret a token....


Ok, taken in that context, it makes sense. But it would be nice to make it more clear that life payment is 1/room THEN check if 15+ life was spent for bonus.

As an UR, this is fine, as it allows one big burst each combat. BUT if the relic/legendary only allows boosting spell damage 1/room, those are very weak.


Maybe add a keyword 'channel'
Channel: for every 1hp you channel into a spell, gain 1pt damage to that spell. If you spend 15+, also use a Mage power.

Then the MEC could read:
Gain channel 1/room
Gain mage power: cast spell as free action. 1/room.

Then the relic and legendary can add more uses of channel and gain other mage powers.


I like this idea as it allows the keyword to be adjusted if needed during the legendary balancing process.
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SUPER Final Ultra Rare Images <Last Chance! 9 months 2 weeks ago #72

kurtreznor wrote:

kurtreznor wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

kurtreznor wrote: Mad evoker charm went back to the not-clear version: does 1/room apply only to the mage power/free action effect? Can you pay life multiple times to boost spell damage?


On tokens when two effects have different duration or frequencies the effects are normally separated by an ampersand.

For example Cleric Relic Sacred Necklace says:

"May cast 2nd-lvl Spells or Resore Spell as Free Actions & may heal a target ally to full hp-even if that character is dead (1/game)"

Which we all understand to restrict the resurrection ability to 1/game but not the 2nd level spells as free actions ability.

It seems to me that the entire MeC power, whether or not it triggers the Mage Power threshold, may be used only 1/room.

I've been wrong before though about how to interpret a token....


Ok, taken in that context, it makes sense. But it would be nice to make it more clear that life payment is 1/room THEN check if 15+ life was spent for bonus.

As an UR, this is fine, as it allows one big burst each combat. BUT if the relic/legendary only allows boosting spell damage 1/room, those are very weak.


Maybe add a keyword 'channel'
Channel: for every 1hp you channel into a spell, gain 1pt damage to that spell. If you spend 15+, also use a Mage power.

Then the MEC could read:
Gain channel 1/room
Gain mage power: cast spell as free action. 1/room.

Then the relic and legendary can add more uses of channel and gain other mage powers.


Except Channel isn't always 1 HP for 1 damage, it's 1 HP for 2 damage at Relic/Legendary. I get the classic MTG reference, but it might be too confusing as a keyword for TD since it is variable.
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