TOPIC: Final MEC, Mage Medallion and Arch-Mage Medallion

Leitz wrote: Seinfeld's feats of strength?

Well we already do the Airing of Grievances, seems like a good addition.

Kaelten wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: 1. Since 2014 spend health to gain damage has been a central effect for many Wizard players .

Sure, but there's a difference between "it's been central because it's a great mechanic" and "it's been central because it's about the only option".

Matthew Hayward wrote: 2. There are currently 3 tokens, at most 2 of which can be equipped, that boost INT. If INT suddenly started to matter in the same way STR matters we'd need 10 years of INT boosting tokens to get anywhere useful I think.

This is the chicken and egg problem right? i.e.:

"We can't make INT meaningful because there are not enough tokens to support it!"
"We don't have INT tokens because it's not meaningful enough to put on tokens!"

To be clear - I’d like INT to be meaningful - I just don’t think the Wizard legendary would be a good place to do that - but I can see the other side.

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Kaelten wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: 1. Since 2014 spend health to gain damage has been a central effect for many Wizard players .

Sure, but there's a difference between "it's been central because it's a great mechanic" and "it's been central because it's about the only option".

I’m not trying to justify, only to explain.

I appreciate the thematic concerns you’ve raised.

I do think having a mechanic that Turns Spends and restores a rechargeable resource is a fun and interesting mechanic in general. (E.g. willpower in the White Wold universe, mana/karma in many computer games for magic/divine types.)

Matthew Hayward wrote: 2. There are currently 3 tokens, at most 2 of which can be equipped, that boost INT. If INT suddenly started to matter in the same way STR matters we'd need 10 years of INT boosting tokens to get anywhere useful I think.

This is the chicken and egg problem right? i.e.:

"We can't make INT meaningful because there are not enough tokens to support it!"
"We don't have INT tokens because it's not meaningful enough to put on tokens!"

To be clear - I’d like INT to be meaningful - I just don’t think the Wizard legendary would be a good place to do that - but I can see the other side.

With the spellbook and familiar to be in the future there are opportunities to make INT be meaningful.

How many spells you could have in your spellbook.

What options you can open regarding familiars. The higher INT opening more options or more abilities for your option.

To those reading self harm, or other thing wotc has recently "admitted to" into the token design process. While I acknowledge you may have strong feelings on the matter I respectfully disagree with your interpretation.

Also please consider that the self harm reference here is a very small bit of community driven dark humor around a token mechanic and not in any way an official interpretation from TD HQ. It is doubtful most people would read the token alone as a reference anything.

Also while it may be getting closer to a line, there are probably also people in the community just as put off by the appearance of hyper focusing and sanitizing such issues in their play as you are by the issues in the first place. They probably wont say anything, they will just get worried and leave. Truthfully I am concerned with even posting this, and that is not how I want to feel on these forms.

To the matter of self harm itself, IRL it is an issue that has touched my family. Joking about it isnt meant to alienate or diminish anyones personal struggles. For some of us though it is a way to make the monster seem less alien. If it has touched your life please reach out to those you care about and let them know. Nothing is as dark as it seems and there is help available.

Thank you for your consideration, I wont be posting further on the matter.

Mike Steele wrote:

Jeff Martin wrote: Thanks for all the great questions and feedback. I can see I need to sit down and write this thing up properly. I will do that tomorrow afternoon. I am going on very little sleep over this week, and I think I need a good night's sleep to do my best work. So...thanks for your patience!

BTW, here are the latest versions of the 3 tokens. More and better things tomorrow!

So, you can use the MEC ability for up to 14 points and still use other abilities each round, but if you use it for 15 or more you get FA and no other Mage Powers? I hope so, i like that restriction. Does the Restore Power ability allow any of them to be used a second time? It seems like it wouldn't since there is a hard rule of one each per combat.

Restore power restores things on player cards - there abilities are granted by tokens (e.g. you can’t restore power a ring of spell storing or a cloak of shadow skin).

Mike Steele wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Jeff Martin wrote: Thanks for all the great questions and feedback. I can see I need to sit down and write this thing up properly. I will do that tomorrow afternoon. I am going on very little sleep over this week, and I think I need a good night's sleep to do my best work. So...thanks for your patience!

BTW, here are the latest versions of the 3 tokens. More and better things tomorrow!

So, you can use the MEC ability for up to 14 points and still use other abilities each round, but if you use it for 15 or more you get FA and no other Mage Powers? I hope so, i like that restriction. Does the Restore Power ability allow any of them to be used a second time? It seems like it wouldn't since there is a hard rule of one each per combat.

The wording may need updated.

As currently designed the intention is that the UR can be used 1/room and have the FA power if it uses 15+HP

The relic can be used up to 3 times, once with each with the UR power and the 2 relic powers

The legendary can be used up to 5 times, once with each of the 5 existing Mage Powers.


Beyond that details are a bit hazy as we wait for Jeff to post some detailed information

I'm not sure, I think this is a variation on the earlier design of MEC, where if you used it you couldn't take another offensive action, but toned way down. Now, you can use it with the higher level abilities if you use it for less than 15 points, but not if you use it for 15 or more. And even if you use it for more than 15 points, you can still take other offensive actions, just not other Mage Powers.

If that is the correct interpretation, can you use other Mage Powers in a turn, and then use the MEC with Free Action ability, or do you lose the option of MEC with 15+ points of damage and FA in the room once you use another Mage Power?

Your last question was answered by Jeff back in page 6-8 somewhere I believe.

You can use each mage power once per room, the order doesn’t matter (e.g. the 15 point free action cast ability from the MeC doesn’t turn off subsequent uses of mage power).

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Jeff Martin wrote: Thanks for all the great questions and feedback. I can see I need to sit down and write this thing up properly. I will do that tomorrow afternoon. I am going on very little sleep over this week, and I think I need a good night's sleep to do my best work. So...thanks for your patience!

BTW, here are the latest versions of the 3 tokens. More and better things tomorrow!

So, you can use the MEC ability for up to 14 points and still use other abilities each round, but if you use it for 15 or more you get FA and no other Mage Powers? I hope so, i like that restriction. Does the Restore Power ability allow any of them to be used a second time? It seems like it wouldn't since there is a hard rule of one each per combat.

The wording may need updated.

As currently designed the intention is that the UR can be used 1/room and have the FA power if it uses 15+HP

The relic can be used up to 3 times, once with each with the UR power and the 2 relic powers

The legendary can be used up to 5 times, once with each of the 5 existing Mage Powers.


Beyond that details are a bit hazy as we wait for Jeff to post some detailed information

I'm not sure, I think this is a variation on the earlier design of MEC, where if you used it you couldn't take another offensive action, but toned way down. Now, you can use it with the higher level abilities if you use it for less than 15 points, but not if you use it for 15 or more. And even if you use it for more than 15 points, you can still take other offensive actions, just not other Mage Powers.

If that is the correct interpretation, can you use other Mage Powers in a turn, and then use the MEC with Free Action ability, or do you lose the option of MEC with 15+ points of damage and FA in the room once you use another Mage Power?

Your last question was answered by Jeff back in page 6-8 somewhere I believe.

You can use each mage power once per room, the order doesn’t matter (e.g. the 15 point free action cast ability from the MeC doesn’t turn off subsequent uses of mage power).

So ... can you use the MEC ability as often as you want, as long as it's less than 14 points per time? I'm not really clear if the once per room is for using the MEC ability at all, or just the MEC Mage Power FA ability. I think it's using the MEC ability at all once per room, but I'm not 100% sure on that.

Similarly, for the Relic & Legendary, can you do the MEC ability of 2 spell damage per HP lost as often as you want as long as it's 14 HP or less each time, or is that just once per room? I really hope it's just once per room, otherwise MEC was removed just to be replaced with an even more powerful MEC.

If it's once per room, maybe using the MEC ability at all should be the Mage Power to make it more clear, and you get an added Free Action if it's 15 points or more.

Jeff will need to confirm, but my interpretation was that you can only use the MEC ability once per room. If you use at least 15hp to boost damage, then you can also make the spell you're boosting a FA. Using less than 15hp doesn't allow you to use it again, it's still one use per room.

You can also use any mage or arch-mage ability listed on your token(s) once per room. Those abilities and MEC can be done in any order, but each of them can only be done once per room.

Dave wrote: Jeff will need to confirm, but my interpretation was that you can only use the MEC ability once per room. If you use at least 15hp to boost damage, then you can also make the spell you're boosting a FA. Using less than 15hp doesn't allow you to use it again, it's still one use per room.

You can also use any mage or arch-mage ability listed on your token(s) once per room. Those abilities and MEC can be done in any order, but each of them can only be done once per room.

This was my interpretation as well.

My reading was that you could use it once per room for as many hps as you wanted to spend but that a minimum spend of 15 was required for the mage power to activate.

First posting in the thread

"MEC - This Charm allows the Wizard to sacrifice point for point to give her spells more damage. So she can take 7 points of damage and add 7 points of damage to her spell. If she really wants to add in more damage to her round she can spend 15+ hp to not only add 15+ hp damage to the spell, but the spell will also be cast as a Free Action.
Regardless if the MEC effect is used, any time a sliding spell slides a "20" this will indicate a critical hit has happened. This will double the base spell damage as well as the added MEC damage (if any).

To keep this new MEC token in check, this MEC effect can only be done once per room."

Picc wrote: My reading was that you could use it once per room for as many hps as you wanted to spend but that a minimum spend of 15 was required for the mage power to activate.

The original was unclear to me, but I was starting to lean/fear the intent was damage boost by paying life was 1/room. BUT with the newer post Jeff made, it seems clear that the intent is to allow spell damage boosting by paying life as often as the wizards wants, but you only get a mage power activation if you pay at least 15 HP.