TOPIC: Final MEC, Mage Medallion and Arch-Mage Medallion

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote: Logic tells me the Relic medallion offers the HP to Damage conversion on all mage powers

This has been answered, it doesn't:

Jeff Martin wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: Question:

When using other Mage Powers, e.g. Intensify, Arcane Slide - do I get any damage bonus from the 15 HP? Or does the 15 HP just unlock that effect without modifying the spell?

The 15 HP just unlocks the Mage or Arch-Mage power. One of those Powers is the Mad Evoker effect. Keep in mind it also takes a Free Action, too.

Ok so looking at this you spend 45 hp to get 20+spell bonus+20+spell bonus for lightning storm.

Adam Guay wrote: As is to double a lightning storm you would pay 45 hp which adds
90 damage+20+spell bonus+20+ spell bonus...before the card rework. Is my math correct so far?

No abilities on these tokens doubles the damage of non-slide spells.

You could channel 45 HP into the Legendary's Spell Savior ability to cast Lightning Storm as a Free Action without making it off the card. The damage would just be: base + your spell bonus.

You could also channel 45 (or 43, or 16) hit points into the Relic or Legendies MeC ability, which would give you a Lightning Storm that did:

base + 2*HP spent as MeC bonus + your spell bonus damage

Damage. You would be able to cast this spell as a free action. It's not clear to me how much of that would go to all targets, and how much would be pool. Past precedent would say only the base is to all targets.

Either ability is limited to 1 use per room.

Adam Guay wrote: As is to double a lightning storm you would pay 45 hp which adds
90 damage+20+spell bonus+20+ spell bonus...before the card rework. Is my math correct so far?

Nope.

As currently written, and assuming the HP channeling applies to all mage power uses

45HP to cast Lightning Storm without expending. The 45HP boosts the Lightning Storm by 90 bonus damage (not base so it's a pool to spend) and consumes your free action to cast the spell.

So you'd expend Free Action to cast the spell and not not mark it off and 45HP to pay the cost for the FA trigger. Your result would be

Lightning storm without marking it off
20 damage base + 90 damage from the Mage Power channel + existing spell damage bonus. Mage Power and Spell damage bonus would apply to a target pool, 20 base would apply to all enemies

You could then cast the Lightning Storm as a Standard Action for 20+ Spell Damage bonus but you would not get the Mage Power damage boost for doing it

With the hp requirements on some abilities the card redesign I feel needs to be more that doubled on some spell damage. Hopefully it can be worked out so that the output of damage is worth the resources used across party members.

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote: Logic tells me the Relic medallion offers the HP to Damage conversion on all mage powers

This has been answered, it doesn't:

Jeff Martin wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: Question:

When using other Mage Powers, e.g. Intensify, Arcane Slide - do I get any damage bonus from the 15 HP? Or does the 15 HP just unlock that effect without modifying the spell?

The 15 HP just unlocks the Mage or Arch-Mage power. One of those Powers is the Mad Evoker effect. Keep in mind it also takes a Free Action, too.

That doesn't mesh with the updated tokens and was posted before the tokens were updated.

If the HP cost does not increase spell damage AND costs a free action the Relic is 100% worse than Medallion of Mystic Mouth.

God I hope that's not the case.

The Relic doubles the bonus damage you get from powering up the MeC Mage Power. 15 HP channeled gets you +30 damage, as compared to +15 on the UR. It also gives you back a Charm slot for the MeC.

It also unlocks Intensify and Arcane Slide - which I don't see much use for myself - but some people like sliding.

Adam Guay wrote: With the hp requirements on some abilities the card redesign I feel needs to be more that doubled on some spell damage. Hopefully it can be worked out so that the output of damage is worth the resources used across party members.

My hope is the Legendary pushes the conversion to 3-1 so that each step adds a ramp up but that all depends on how the Mage Power interacts with the HP sacrifice.

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Adam Guay wrote: As is to double a lightning storm you would pay 45 hp which adds
90 damage+20+spell bonus+20+ spell bonus...before the card rework. Is my math correct so far?

Nope.

As currently written, and assuming the HP channeling applies to all mage power uses

45HP to cast Lightning Storm without expending. The 45HP boosts the Lightning Storm by 90 bonus damage (not base so it's a pool to spend) and consumes your free action to cast the spell.

So you'd expend Free Action to cast the spell and not not mark it off and 45HP to pay the cost for the FA trigger. Your result would be

Lightning storm without marking it off
20 damage base + 90 damage from the Mage Power channel + existing spell damage bonus. Mage Power and Spell damage bonus would apply to a target pool, 20 base would apply to all enemies

You could then cast the Lightning Storm as a Standard Action for 20+ Spell Damage bonus but you would not get the Mage Power damage boost for doing it

I was using the spell doubling ability ...but I see where I added in the incorrect bonus 90 damage.

Intensify - As a Free Action (and at the cost of 15 hp), use her Mage power to reduce the target's Spell Resistance by 50% for her spells that round.

If it's the target's spell resistance that is reduced, rather than a given caster "penetrating" the spell resistance, wouldn't it make more sense to call this "Spell Breach," since the particular wizard's spell isn't what's getting stronger, but rather the target's resistance going down?

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote: Logic tells me the Relic medallion offers the HP to Damage conversion on all mage powers

This has been answered, it doesn't:

Jeff Martin wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: Question:

When using other Mage Powers, e.g. Intensify, Arcane Slide - do I get any damage bonus from the 15 HP? Or does the 15 HP just unlock that effect without modifying the spell?

The 15 HP just unlocks the Mage or Arch-Mage power. One of those Powers is the Mad Evoker effect. Keep in mind it also takes a Free Action, too.

That doesn't mesh with the updated tokens and was posted before the tokens were updated.

If the HP cost does not increase spell damage AND costs a free action the Relic is 100% worse than Medallion of Mystic Mouth.

God I hope that's not the case.

The Relic doubles the bonus damage you get from powering up the MeC Mage Power. 15 HP channeled gets you +30 damage, as compared to +15 on the UR. It also gives you back a Charm slot for the MeC.

It also unlocks Intensify and Arcane Slide - which I don't see much use for myself - but some people like sliding.

If that's actually the design I will skip the Relic and Legendary, keep my Mad Evoker's Charm and Amulet of Shock and be ahead of the curve.

If the Relic uses the neck slot and still limits my +damage to 1 per room it's not worth the upgrade.

Daniel White wrote:

Intensify - As a Free Action (and at the cost of 15 hp), use her Mage power to reduce the target's Spell Resistance by 50% for her spells that round.

If it's the target's spell resistance that is reduced, rather than a given caster "penetrating" the spell resistance, wouldn't it make more sense to call this "Spell Breach," since the particular wizard's spell isn't what's getting stronger, but rather the target's resistance going down?

I am REALLY unhappy at seeing Spell Resistance come back as a design. Especially when it was removed with the Eldritch redesign, and given Druid's have no way outside of the Cabal Charm to affect it and Wizards have a 1/room reduction for 1 spell.

I'd much rather just have spell resistance cut my total damage in half than let this come back

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Kaelten wrote:

Ian Lee wrote: I would imagine Jeff could say something like "We plan on doing additional class legendaries in the future to highlight different aspects of classes." to give druids not into polymorph, rangers not into ranged, fighters not into one-handed weapons, wizards not into cutting themselves hope for another go at it.

I both understand how basing around MEC mechanics is unappealing to some and view this game as one not served well if tokens are universally appealing as that consumes design space. Widseth's Legendary was a rather obvious way to go, but will a bard legendary that does stuff not involving bardsong feel right?

Of course, I think we'd all love to know if such things are being planned.

I think the root of the problem with Wizard is it's more controversial than most classes' quintessential flavor.

Unlike Polymorph Druid, Ranged Rangers, and Singing Bards, MEC is not built into the class's concept.

Those who feel MEC is that quintessential aspect of the class are really just being gaslit by the fact it's been one of the few viable Wizard builds at the high end for so long it became a defacto expectation among them. If the class was "Blood Mage" and not "Wizard" it'd be a very different situation if no less controversial out of game.

Wizards have used their life essence to cause overly powerful magical effects in combat in fantasy lore for as long as i remember. How many times has Wizard X cast a massive elemental fire spell to save the party from imminent death and walked away bleading, having be struck blind with magefire in the eyes, had their hair gain a large streak of white or gone white all together.

The design of the Mad Evoker's Charm didn't invent the idea of sacrificial blood magic, it was inspired by it.

And Dwarves were antisemitic and Orcs were racist in fantasy lore for substantial lengths of time. WotC still finally acknowledged it and is correcting them in newer editions because “it always worked that way” was NOT a valid justification for maintaining hurtful social messages.

My perspective.

Without using any of these three tokens you are getting the roughly double damage baked into the character card.

These tokens give you many options as a high risk high reward wizard. These options were not previous available as part pf the soon to be changed MEC.

Choice is whether you want to use the soon to be changed charm or neck slot for the additional high risk high reward options to be available.

To me this meets what both sides were after.