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TOPIC: FINAL 2021 Transmuted Token Images!
FINAL 2021 Transmuted Token Images! 4 years 7 months ago #97
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I notice you're very intentionally avoiding any discussion about the actual point of my post, which is the very significant total damage point discrepancy between Wizard and Druid. Which gets significantly worse if you also nerf further the Ring of Quick Prayer. |
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FINAL 2021 Transmuted Token Images! 4 years 7 months ago #98
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Bob, I've already explained this, but I was just using MEC as shorthand for the MEC effect, which the Wizard Legendary grants to all spells now with zero HP cost for using it. My apologies for not making that more clear in the original post. My numbers are accurate, I'm using the Legendary MEC-like bonus for all spells which has no HP penalty. |
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FINAL 2021 Transmuted Token Images! 4 years 7 months ago #99
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This is probably too late, but I want to bring it up so people are aware.
Fighter relic: +7 strength +3 dex +4 con melee shield adds to reflex saves compare that to ranger relic: +4 con +6 ranged damage use a druid scroll 1/game Seems to me that the Fighter relic is way above the ranger relic. The fighter legendary seems fine if the relic is toned down. Just eliminating the +3 dex I think would do it. |
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FINAL 2021 Transmuted Token Images! 4 years 7 months ago #100
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I'm not avoiding it. I don't think it exists but I am also not doing a detailed analysis of max damage round per round of the Wizard vs the Druid in order to validate your feeling that Druid is severely behind the Wizard. My comments are SPECIFICALLY about the power level of two vastly different tokens and specifically showing that, as written, the UR non class specific Ring provides Druids MORE damage than the Class Specific Relic Necklace. That is the totality of my argument in this instance. If you want to argue that a BIS spell damage Druid is FAR behind the Wizard on spell damage then present a build, run the analysis over 10 rounds of combat and present it against the same 10 rounds of combat run by the Wizard. The requirement of proof is in your court of that's your claim. I provided the proof of mine. |
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FINAL 2021 Transmuted Token Images! 4 years 7 months ago #101
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I’m decently powerful, but not elite right now. My spell damage next year will be +20 with the Skull, but before doing any other purchase. I have MMM, MEC, Arcane set and charm of spell swapping. I love sliding spells and use all of them. I essentially use 4 level 2 spells.
My quick math for 7 rounds of combat: Current MEC and MMM: 482 damage (-70 to myself) Proposed relic; 568 damage (+1 charm slot assuming MEC does not stack) Proposed Legendary: 604 Jump to relic is huge because of doubling base on my 4 level 2 spell casts (Arcane and spell swapping assumed to be free action spells too) Jump to legendary is way too small because if you’re still marking off the level 3 when cast as a free action, all you’re really getting is a level 0 spell added on somewhere in the mix. Matt’s proposed relic is 550 (assuming a MEC doesn’t stack); legendary is 672. Do those feel right for the kind of jumps we would expect, as I’m not sure what the jumps should really be? Still take 70 damage and free up 1 charm slot. If MEC stacks, it could get worse, though I’d die many times over. |
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FINAL 2021 Transmuted Token Images! 4 years 7 months ago #102
This is correct. I've lowered all my analysis to 32 bonus damage per round and assume Cabal. FA spells are more powerful than anything else in this game (far superior to MEC). Also, I'd argue that the Ring of Expertise is great for low and mid level wizards, but depending upon playstyle is at best the 3rd best ring and could be considered only the 5th best ring (I have it 4th on my list) and thus don't plan to ever equip it. But then I have Staff of Power and don't need it for alertness. If you're running the legendary and Cabal, your only choice to equip a 3rd ring is Charm of Glory and the charm slot is very, very tight, especially since we need to drop the Charm Necklace. I only bring up this up here because I see this assumption being used in a lot of analysis related to the transmutes. |
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FINAL 2021 Transmuted Token Images! 4 years 7 months ago #103
How is +3 or +4 melee or thrown damage "way above" +6 ranged damage? And as has been explained through multiple threads the DEX is mostly there to keep allowing Thor's Hammer to be wielded. Cranston's
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FINAL 2021 Transmuted Token Images! 4 years 7 months ago #104
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Yep. I've also followed the same thoughts you have and will not be adding the Ring of Expertise to my Wizard Main build. For my Elf Wizard I will take the hit and equip it for Alertness because it's a staple Elf Wizard spell and I don't have the +2 Staff of Power. |
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FINAL 2021 Transmuted Token Images! 4 years 7 months ago #105
Is cabal being counted at +1 or +3? Assuming a full cabal party, there is no damage loss from using it over blessed tempest gloves. Note - it’s only a 2 point Damage loss at worst, because cabal always adds at Least 1. |
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Last edit: by Endgame.
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FINAL 2021 Transmuted Token Images! 4 years 7 months ago #106
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Ooo! Good point on Thor's. I stand corrected. Not "way above". I should have stated "Doing more things than a similar power level relic". The + to strength is +3.5 to hit and +3.5 to damage. Thus, in my view, a +7 benefit. This would be on par with the +6 damage to range, I feel. The +4 cons are equal. Ranger gets a scroll 1/game, fighter gets more reflex saves. Fighters come out ahead on this. Fighters get +3 dex. Fighters also come out ahead. |
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FINAL 2021 Transmuted Token Images! 4 years 7 months ago #107
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I'd never assume 4 other players are wearing the cabal bracers on an analysis of the Wizard. Statistically unless i'm going for a "cabal" run it's less than a 10% chance I will find someone else running the cabal bracers instead of Arcane Bracers, Charm Bracelets of Bracers of the Zephyr. You are correct tho that I failed to account for the +1 from the Cabal Bracers. That'd be a 2 damage loss for Cabal set, not 3 |
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FINAL 2021 Transmuted Token Images! 4 years 7 months ago #108
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I've already provided a detailed analysis that shows the Wizard in just 7 turns far outdamages the Druid in 10. If you've decided to ignore that analysis and continue to say I'm basing what I'm saying on "feelings", I think that's on you. |
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