TOPIC: FINAL 2021 Transmuted Token Images!

Dergidan wrote: Looks like the Fighter legendary has a typo? Is "all Handed weapons" intentional?

The token says "...all 1-handed melee weapons..." (although maybe Jeff ninja edited the image between your post and my reply?)

kurtreznor wrote:
Also, I just realized a fun thing I can do (already, actually, but it just occurred to me); I can get 3 pucks on the table - main action is to throw the dagger of arcane luck, then slide empty puck for dagger special ability, then free action a sliding spell.

I've been wondering about this practically - if you cast Ray of Shock from your card, and then again with Ring of Spell Storing - what do you do? Just grab and empty puck and explain to the DMs?

Wade Schwendemann (Dr. Uid) wrote: Why did the name of the Wizard legendary change? I liked the other one, it reminded me of Slytherin.

I like to imagine that each time Jeff designs one of these, he sits down and writes an novella length backstory of the character, explaining their life and how they came to achieve these specific powers. The cavadar special event is we get to go to a reading room with all their stories .

More seriously - I've been noticing that too and wondering about it. Maybe Jeff just has a list of characters from his campaings and rolls a d1000 each time a legendary name is needed.

Wade Schwendemann (Dr. Uid) wrote: ...

I like your forum name. That is all.

NightGod wrote: So, there seems to be a bit of confusion. Is the Mage Legendary implying a HP cap on the wizard of 50/70 or a damage cap on the individual spells cast of 50/70?

I can make a case for either to be true.

Follow-up if it is the damage cap: can we equip a MEC and choose to take 10HP damage for one spell per round to boost it normally?

It seems pretty clear to me that it's a HP cap (50 for Relic, 70 for Legendary), not a damage cap.

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Dergidan wrote: Looks like the Fighter legendary has a typo? Is "all Handed weapons" intentional?

The token says "...all 1-handed melee weapons..." (although maybe Jeff ninja edited the image between your post and my reply?)

Those of you who corrected me are right - to me the 1-h looked like a capital H. Screen size.

False alarm.

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Bob Chasan wrote: Also the text is removed from the Skull of Cavadar

There was some discussion earlier - that is on purpose to make the token look clean and awesome like RoSP.

I think the idea is anyone who has one of these know what it does or knows how to get to TokenDB.

Oh, I thought it meant it could only be used on adult runs...

Matthew Hayward wrote:

kurtreznor wrote:
Also, I just realized a fun thing I can do (already, actually, but it just occurred to me); I can get 3 pucks on the table - main action is to throw the dagger of arcane luck, then slide empty puck for dagger special ability, then free action a sliding spell.

I've been wondering about this practically - if you cast Ray of Shock from your card, and then again with Ring of Spell Storing - what do you do? Just grab and empty puck and explain to the DMs?

My assumption was you could only slide one puck, making it impossible to cast 2.

Sounds like clarification is needed.

Mike Steele wrote:

Arnold wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: Jeff, Mage Medallion seems massively overpowered. It gives MEC bonuses to all spells now (including multiple per room) plus allows doubling of spells with the free action. The HP limit seems minor, especially since MEC damage is no longer a factor. As more free action spells are added from future tokens this will be more overpowered.

Adding 3rd level spells to free action with Legendary is just more doubling of spells per room. And, if it's now OK to auto succeed on skill tests, maybe we can bring back the UR from last year that let all classes do it.

I'd be interested in seeing a couple of max build analyses to see what the spell damage potential is incorporating these two Wizard tokens.

I don’t think the wizard token auto succeeds skill tests.

The last iteration granted 6 free action damage spells, and let you swap into as many more as you had higher level spells - but limited to 1/room so effectively 3 or 4.

This iteration grants 3 free action damage spells, and lets you swap into 1 more.

I think this version is less powerful than the last one, but only a little, and it’s much simpler to reason about.

Matthew, you're right, it's auto slide, not auto skill check.

Any chance you can do your magic analysis to see max damage incorporating these? It seems like this is OP to me, but it's hard to tell without crunching the numbers.

Why do you never do the math yourself?

assume 35 dmg modifier, multiply that by the total number of damage spells.

then go through the card and simply multiply each spell's listed dmg totals x2, and presto. You're done!

Then if you want to be really thorough, count each non-damage spell as a damage spell the level below, repeat the last step. Multiply that total number of non-dmg spells (hint, it's 2) by 35, add the result to your running total and donezo.

Partly because I have no idea what a BIS Wizard build looks like, and I don't know if 35 is the appropriate modifier, and I'm not sure how many bonus spells are being granted from various tokens & token set abilities. There are several people that have BIS Wizard builds done, and can just apply these tokens to it.

I suspect that this is why Wizards take issue with you saying a lot of their toys are OP.

If you don't understand their builds, you should perhaps delve deeper into it to get real perspective on how and why they are able to achieve the numbers they get to. I think it's best to formulate an opinion on a firm understanding of what goes into the math rather than looking at end results and misinterpreting the data.

I think the clearest example of this would be your co-opting Mattthew's 900 damage number but not really considering the HP cost (in MEC), nor the requirements of that build (lots of items dedicated to CON / HP bump) that present real opportunity cost to other things they could be doing.

Not trying to attack you, but I think it would make your stance stronger if you understood more fully the class and build you're offering your opinion on.

The HP Doesn’t just affect hit points. To get that HP hire we are using CON enhancers which also affects Fortitude. Wizards already have Terrible saving throws. By limiting the amount we can boost our fortitude saving throw forces us to use some other enhancer like a ring of fortitude

Bob Chasan wrote: The HP Doesn’t just affect hit points. To get that HP hire we are using CON enhancers which also affects Fortitude. Wizards already have Terrible saving throws. By limiting the amount we can boost our fortitude saving throw forces us to use some other enhancer like a ring of fortitude

What would stop us from stacking CON and just ignoring the amounts above 50/70?

Mike Steele wrote: Since I haven't seen anyone else calculate the damage from this latest Wizard Legendary as well as the Ring of Expertise, I thought I'd take a shot at it. Please correct me if I'm mistaken because I'm not super familiar with top end Wizard tokens, but here's my take on what the Wizard can do in the first seven rounds (three rooms) using this Legendary, and the 35 point bonus damage I've seen used in other analysis. It adds up to an average of 122.7 damage per round, or 859 total damage for the seven turns. That seems very overpowered to me, and it will just get worse with the next character card level increase.

Room 1:

Turn 1: 133 damage
Lightning Storm: 20+20+35=75
Magic Missile: 11+11+35=57

Turn 2: 128 Damage
Scorching Ray: 18+18+35=71
Magic Missile: 11+11+35=57

Turn 3 (Bracelets of the Cabal Room 1): 114 Damage
Magic Missile (Cats Grace CoSS): 11+11+35=57
Magic Missile (Ring of Expertise): 11+11+35=57

Room 2:

Turn 4: 128 Damage
Ray of Shock: 18+18+35=71
Magic Missile: 11+11+35=57

Turn 5 (Bracelets of the Cabal Room 2): 114 Damage
Magic Missile (Ring of Expertise): 11+11+35=57
Magic Missile 11+11+35=57

Turn 6: 124
Lightning Storm (Crown of Expertise): 20+20+35=75
Burning Hands: 7+7+35=49

Room 3:

Turn 7: (Bracelets of the Cabal Room 3): 118
Magic Missile (Ring of Expertise): 11+11+35=57
Acid Ray: 12+12+35 = 59

Awesome! Nice work!