TOPIC: FINAL 2021 Transmuted Token Images!

Mike Steele wrote: Since I haven't seen anyone else calculate the damage from this latest Wizard Legendary as well as the Ring of Expertise, I thought I'd take a shot at it. Please correct me if I'm mistaken because I'm not super familiar with top end Wizard tokens, but here's my take on what the Wizard can do in the first seven rounds (three rooms) using this Legendary, and the 35 point bonus damage I've seen used in other analysis. It adds up to an average of 122.7 damage per round, or 859 total damage for the seven turns. That seems very overpowered to me, and it will just get worse with the next character card level increase.

Room 1:

Turn 1: 133 damage
Lightning Storm: 20+20+35=75
Magic Missile: 11+11+35=57

Turn 2: 128 Damage
Scorching Ray: 18+18+35=71
Magic Missile: 11+11+35=57

Turn 3 (Bracelets of the Cabal Room 1): 114 Damage
Magic Missile (Cats Grace CoSS): 11+11+35=57
Magic Missile (Ring of Expertise): 11+11+35=57

Room 2:

Turn 4: 128 Damage
Ray of Shock: 18+18+35=71
Magic Missile: 11+11+35=57

Turn 5 (Bracelets of the Cabal Room 2): 114 Damage
Magic Missile (Ring of Expertise): 11+11+35=57
Magic Missile 11+11+35=57

Turn 6: 124
Lightning Storm (Crown of Expertise): 20+20+35=75
Burning Hands: 7+7+35=49

Room 3:

Turn 7: (Bracelets of the Cabal Room 3): 118
Magic Missile (Ring of Expertise): 11+11+35=57
Acid Ray: 12+12+35 = 59

It appears you are incorrectly applying MEC since it can only be applied to one spell each round. You are also not applying the doubled skill test damage. I have not seen many people checking average damage over seven rounds. Typically it is a bit longer which gives a better overall view.

James Bennett wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: Since I haven't seen anyone else calculate the damage from this latest Wizard Legendary as well as the Ring of Expertise, I thought I'd take a shot at it. Please correct me if I'm mistaken because I'm not super familiar with top end Wizard tokens, but here's my take on what the Wizard can do in the first seven rounds (three rooms) using this Legendary, and the 35 point bonus damage I've seen used in other analysis. It adds up to an average of 122.7 damage per round, or 859 total damage for the seven turns. That seems very overpowered to me, and it will just get worse with the next character card level increase.

Room 1:

Turn 1: 133 damage
Lightning Storm: 20+20+35=75
Magic Missile: 11+11+35=57

Turn 2: 128 Damage
Scorching Ray: 18+18+35=71
Magic Missile: 11+11+35=57

Turn 3 (Bracelets of the Cabal Room 1): 114 Damage
Magic Missile (Cats Grace CoSS): 11+11+35=57
Magic Missile (Ring of Expertise): 11+11+35=57

Room 2:

Turn 4: 128 Damage
Ray of Shock: 18+18+35=71
Magic Missile: 11+11+35=57

Turn 5 (Bracelets of the Cabal Room 2): 114 Damage
Magic Missile (Ring of Expertise): 11+11+35=57
Magic Missile 11+11+35=57

Turn 6: 124
Lightning Storm (Crown of Expertise): 20+20+35=75
Burning Hands: 7+7+35=49

Room 3:

Turn 7: (Bracelets of the Cabal Room 3): 118
Magic Missile (Ring of Expertise): 11+11+35=57
Acid Ray: 12+12+35 = 59

It appears you are incorrectly applying MEC since it can only be applied to one spell each round. You are also not applying the doubled skill test damage. I have not seen many people checking average damage over seven rounds. Typically it is a bit longer which gives a better overall view.

Either way, those numbers dont seem.out of line with what a Barbarian. Monk or ranger can do in 7 rounds.

Wizard Legendary: I think the HP limit should go and the power level maybe be slightly reduced to compensate. I don’t want to be in a situation where the Wizard either wears a Charm or Awakened Synergy and does not get the benefits or doesn’t wear one and hurts the party.

I really like the double bonus on skill checks.

Re: Wizard stuff

I am not shocked that there are so many posts after mad changes to Wizard stuff. Even with questions on wording and how things worked, I managed to avoid adding to the cacophony. Oh well, another devil gets her wings.

At first, these sounded awful, so I had to reread them to understand why people thought they were good.

Legendary seems to be saying you lose ability to FA 2nd level when you gain ability to with 3rd level.

I may have missed something, but how does this interact with MEC? Do you triple base damage or quadruple base damage? Note that multiplication is generally a broken effect in games.

I find hp caps incredibly inelegant. First thing I did when getting into URs was get my wizard hps up as high as possible, which turned out to be less fun than I thought it would be, but the point I'm getting at is that hp do actually matter. And, this is arbitrary. Why 50hp when my typical wizard build is 70+ without using the neck slot for a relic? Why 70hp?

If I randomly got the legendary in a treasure draw, I would probably use it a couple of times for the massive build warping it would require, then I'd hope I could flip it to someone who desired the biggest cannon of glass ever.

Otherwise, I'm as ambivalent as ever about how much damage bonus the tokens bring. Began last year where more stats and more damage just leave me more interested in the damage wheel of rare alchemicals.

Dergidan wrote: Looks like the Fighter legendary has a typo? Is "all Handed weapons" intentional?

If you look again, it says "aa 1-Handed weapons", just the number 1 is hard to see.

James Bennett wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: Since I haven't seen anyone else calculate the damage from this latest Wizard Legendary as well as the Ring of Expertise, I thought I'd take a shot at it. Please correct me if I'm mistaken because I'm not super familiar with top end Wizard tokens, but here's my take on what the Wizard can do in the first seven rounds (three rooms) using this Legendary, and the 35 point bonus damage I've seen used in other analysis. It adds up to an average of 122.7 damage per round, or 859 total damage for the seven turns. That seems very overpowered to me, and it will just get worse with the next character card level increase.

Room 1:

Turn 1: 133 damage
Lightning Storm: 20+20+35=75
Magic Missile: 11+11+35=57

Turn 2: 128 Damage
Scorching Ray: 18+18+35=71
Magic Missile: 11+11+35=57

Turn 3 (Bracelets of the Cabal Room 1): 114 Damage
Magic Missile (Cats Grace CoSS): 11+11+35=57
Magic Missile (Ring of Expertise): 11+11+35=57

Room 2:

Turn 4: 128 Damage
Ray of Shock: 18+18+35=71
Magic Missile: 11+11+35=57

Turn 5 (Bracelets of the Cabal Room 2): 114 Damage
Magic Missile (Ring of Expertise): 11+11+35=57
Magic Missile 11+11+35=57

Turn 6: 124
Lightning Storm (Crown of Expertise): 20+20+35=75
Burning Hands: 7+7+35=49

Room 3:

Turn 7: (Bracelets of the Cabal Room 3): 118
Magic Missile (Ring of Expertise): 11+11+35=57
Acid Ray: 12+12+35 = 59

It appears you are incorrectly applying MEC since it can only be applied to one spell each round. You are also not applying the doubled skill test damage. I have not seen many people checking average damage over seven rounds. Typically it is a bit longer which gives a better overall view.

I'm using MEC for shorthand, but it's really the new Legendary ability to double the base damage and skill check bonuses on all spells with no "cutting" damage. Super-MEC as it were. I believe it is applied correctly.

Mike Steele wrote:

James Bennett wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: Since I haven't seen anyone else calculate the damage from this latest Wizard Legendary as well as the Ring of Expertise, I thought I'd take a shot at it. Please correct me if I'm mistaken because I'm not super familiar with top end Wizard tokens, but here's my take on what the Wizard can do in the first seven rounds (three rooms) using this Legendary, and the 35 point bonus damage I've seen used in other analysis. It adds up to an average of 122.7 damage per round, or 859 total damage for the seven turns. That seems very overpowered to me, and it will just get worse with the next character card level increase.

Room 1:

Turn 1: 133 damage
Lightning Storm: 20+20+35=75
Magic Missile: 11+11+35=57

Turn 2: 128 Damage
Scorching Ray: 18+18+35=71
Magic Missile: 11+11+35=57

Turn 3 (Bracelets of the Cabal Room 1): 114 Damage
Magic Missile (Cats Grace CoSS): 11+11+35=57
Magic Missile (Ring of Expertise): 11+11+35=57

Room 2:

Turn 4: 128 Damage
Ray of Shock: 18+18+35=71
Magic Missile: 11+11+35=57

Turn 5 (Bracelets of the Cabal Room 2): 114 Damage
Magic Missile (Ring of Expertise): 11+11+35=57
Magic Missile 11+11+35=57

Turn 6: 124
Lightning Storm (Crown of Expertise): 20+20+35=75
Burning Hands: 7+7+35=49

Room 3:

Turn 7: (Bracelets of the Cabal Room 3): 118
Magic Missile (Ring of Expertise): 11+11+35=57
Acid Ray: 12+12+35 = 59

It appears you are incorrectly applying MEC since it can only be applied to one spell each round. You are also not applying the doubled skill test damage. I have not seen many people checking average damage over seven rounds. Typically it is a bit longer which gives a better overall view.

I'm using MEC for shorthand, but it's really the new Legendary ability to double the base damage and skill check bonuses on all spells with no "cutting" damage. Super-MEC as it were. I believe it is applied correctly.

Ah, you are correct and my numbers are far off because of it. I read the token as doubling the skill check bonus. That's on me.

NightGod wrote:

Dergidan wrote: Looks like the Fighter legendary has a typo? Is "all Handed weapons" intentional?

If you look again, it says "aa 1-Handed weapons", just the number 1 is hard to see.

It reads properly now. It helps if you use a larger view size.

It is possible that this item could end up being a bit too much, particularly after the new class cards come out. I would like to see some of the text in TokenDB and. It on the token so it is easier to adjust in the future.

I also do question a bit of this the right item for Elf Wizards and Wizards. Having a capstone ability that works 3 times with one card and 2 times with the other seems off.

Edit: maybe put per game limits on the Wizard legendary to prevent unexpected power creep with new cards and normalize effectiveness between the two Wizard cards? This might allow the design space to remove the HP caps which I think are a mistake.

Endgame wrote:

Rob F wrote: I don't like the idea of a HP cap. It will make things harder as the years go by from a game design standpoint. Years from now as monsters need to be beefed up to account for power creep and do more damage the HP limit may be too low

HP per con level could be reduced, though I don’t know how to say that easily on a token.

It wouldn’t be a cap, but it would be reduced

If the HP cap stays that might be good. Near term I think it's fine - and doesn't effect much.

But it's a drawback that is likely to get worse over time.

Maybe something like:

Enfeebled: You get 1/2 (rounded up) of the benefits of CON and +max HP items

Perhaps getting hit with a Ray of Enfeeblement is what drove the Evoker Mad ;0

So, there seems to be a bit of confusion. Is the Mage Legendary implying a HP cap on the wizard of 50/70 or a damage cap on the individual spells cast of 50/70?

I can make a case for either to be true.

Follow-up if it is the damage cap: can we equip a MEC and choose to take 10HP damage for one spell per round to boost it normally?

Bob Chasan wrote: Also the text is removed from the Skull of Cavadar

There was some discussion earlier - that is on purpose to make the token look clean and awesome like RoSP.

I think the idea is anyone who has one of these know what it does or knows how to get to TokenDB.