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TOPIC: FINAL 2021 Ultra Rare Token Images!

FINAL 2021 Ultra Rare Token Images! 1 year 3 months ago #85

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

OrionW wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

OrionW wrote:

Jeff Martin wrote: Regarding the Ring of Quick Blessing...

Maybe the text is poorly worded, so I want to explain what it means. I am seeing all kinds of crazy damage claims that I don't understand. The token reads:

May cast 1st-level
spells as Free
Actions (5/game)
& may Restore
Power as a
Free Action
(Cleric only)

This does not give the classes any more 1st-level spells...just let's them use their 1st-level spells as Free Actions. For the Druid that means up to 3 Free Action Freezing Orbs and for the Cleric 1 Spiritual Hammer. The (5/game) is there in case we have items that grant more 1st level spells...so there is a hard limit on the number of spells the Ring can quicken.


People are concerned that the ring allows 5*SD where spell damage is modified based on epic level gear + what ever the caster would do that round normally. The issue with this argument is that with epic level gear abilities should do epic damage. The complaints are mostly from Wizards that don't like the fact that for a few rounds Dr. Uld could do almost as much damage as a Wizard (note not more damage... but maybe 80% of the Wizard's damage).

What would be helpful is to understand what the expectation is for max damage in a Patron run or Epic level module run. Because right now I don't think Dr. Uld is close to the max, but I don't know what TD's expectation is. ;)


In the future please don't make claims about the reasoning for other players making comments.

If you are planning to suggest that a BIS Druid is only capable of producing 500 points of spell damage over 10 rounds of combat and the Wizard is able to do 200 more than PLEASE back it up with numbers indicating that.


If I have mistaken your position I apologize. You did specifically state though that you thought any Dr. Uld build should be 75% as effective as a Wizard. I think it is important that we get to the core issue which is Dr. Uld effectiveness, because if we all understand what TD think the class should do, these balance conversations are easier to have. :)


That is taking my statement out of context.

What I said is that I feel a Druid should be as effective as 75% of the damage output of the Wizard as the Druid is a Hybrid class and can also be 75% as effective a healer as a Cleric and 75% as effective a damage dealer in melee as a Barbarian.

I feel that a hybrid class SHOULD have a measurable difference between it's output and the output of a pure class that does not have the same flexibility.

You even agree that the Druid should not be able to match the Wizard in spell damage. You just refuse to say what % you feel is appropriate.


Sure I might swap my gear to lean into a healer if the group does not have a cleric, but that is so the group can have fun on a TD run.

If the group has a Cleric I am going to be playing a damage contributing class with Dr. Uld. There is no context shifting here. You are specifically asking that Dr. Uld be 75% as effective in a damage dealing role.

Yes I think Wizards should do more damage, but I think it should be situational and only by a large amount when there are rooms with more than one bad guy. The single damage calculations in this thread should be closer.
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FINAL 2021 Ultra Rare Token Images! 1 year 3 months ago #86

OrionW wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

OrionW wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

OrionW wrote:

Jeff Martin wrote: Regarding the Ring of Quick Blessing...

Maybe the text is poorly worded, so I want to explain what it means. I am seeing all kinds of crazy damage claims that I don't understand. The token reads:

May cast 1st-level
spells as Free
Actions (5/game)
& may Restore
Power as a
Free Action
(Cleric only)

This does not give the classes any more 1st-level spells...just let's them use their 1st-level spells as Free Actions. For the Druid that means up to 3 Free Action Freezing Orbs and for the Cleric 1 Spiritual Hammer. The (5/game) is there in case we have items that grant more 1st level spells...so there is a hard limit on the number of spells the Ring can quicken.


People are concerned that the ring allows 5*SD where spell damage is modified based on epic level gear + what ever the caster would do that round normally. The issue with this argument is that with epic level gear abilities should do epic damage. The complaints are mostly from Wizards that don't like the fact that for a few rounds Dr. Uld could do almost as much damage as a Wizard (note not more damage... but maybe 80% of the Wizard's damage).

What would be helpful is to understand what the expectation is for max damage in a Patron run or Epic level module run. Because right now I don't think Dr. Uld is close to the max, but I don't know what TD's expectation is. ;)


In the future please don't make claims about the reasoning for other players making comments.

If you are planning to suggest that a BIS Druid is only capable of producing 500 points of spell damage over 10 rounds of combat and the Wizard is able to do 200 more than PLEASE back it up with numbers indicating that.


If I have mistaken your position I apologize. You did specifically state though that you thought any Dr. Uld build should be 75% as effective as a Wizard. I think it is important that we get to the core issue which is Dr. Uld effectiveness, because if we all understand what TD think the class should do, these balance conversations are easier to have. :)


That is taking my statement out of context.

What I said is that I feel a Druid should be as effective as 75% of the damage output of the Wizard as the Druid is a Hybrid class and can also be 75% as effective a healer as a Cleric and 75% as effective a damage dealer in melee as a Barbarian.

I feel that a hybrid class SHOULD have a measurable difference between it's output and the output of a pure class that does not have the same flexibility.

You even agree that the Druid should not be able to match the Wizard in spell damage. You just refuse to say what % you feel is appropriate.


Sure I might swap my gear to lean into a healer if the group does not have a cleric, but that is so the group can have fun on a TD run.

If the group has a Cleric I am going to be playing a damage contributing class with Dr. Uld. There is no context shifting here. You are specifically asking that Dr. Uld be 75% as effective in a damage dealing role.

Yes I think Wizards should do more damage, but I think it should be situational and only by a large amount when there are rooms with more than one bad guy. The single damage calculations in this thread should be closer.


If you have an issue with my numbers PLEASE offer some of your own.

You've again stated that you don't like MY number and you've once again refused to quantify your own.

There's no chance of us ever reaching an agreement if you refuse to take part in the discussion.
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FINAL 2021 Ultra Rare Token Images! 1 year 3 months ago #87

I really like the new Psyferre's Spectacles. Above all others, this is a version I'd be pretty happy to keep in my token reserve.

I agree that Cranston's should be toned down to +2 damage instead of +3. I still think it needs to be kept away from hit bonuses and only grant other types of bonus (e.g. damage), e.g. equipping the previous +2 to hit version with Sniper Spectacles would grant a huge +5 to hit with all ranged attacks, which is certainly far above UR in power level and would essentially make every non-ranged build capable of doubling as a ranged build in addition to their primary focus.

Earcuff of Orbits - I'm still very happy to see it here and in the same set as two very desirable Ioun Stones. I'd rather see it made available now to address the current situation of it being in very high demand and almost impossible to find, than delay it in case slot expanders become hard to find several years down the line. By then it's quite possible that changes to character cards, INT/CHA/WIS and generally printing lots of new tokens will have changed what tokens are considered BiS, and either way new slot expanders can be printed if they are in demand. I'd rather see new and alternative tokens created than delay reprints which are currently needed.

On a lighter note....

Who feels like doing a theme run where every player equips Psyferre's Spectacles and Figurines of Power: Reaver and Horror to nuke the last monster for 360 damage before the first round of combat starts? :cheer:
I play Rogue. Occasionally I even play Rogue well.

Current build: tdcharactercreator.com/#/character/edit/54550c58-0964-4b14-af03-5c485ca2ef70
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FINAL 2021 Ultra Rare Token Images! 1 year 3 months ago #88

Wade Schwendemann (Dr. Uid) wrote: "Maybe clerics will get a level 1 damage spell" when cards are redesigned is not a reason to allow them to use this ring for damage either. This ring would be a reason for Clerics not to get a level 1 damage spell if printed as is.

Let's just protect against damage altogether.


This is a great point, and also applies if some future token allows swapping Cure for Harm.
dmrzzz's trade thread

Yes, my AC is lower than the Wizard's. No regrets!
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FINAL 2021 Ultra Rare Token Images! 1 year 3 months ago #89

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Harlax wrote:

BeLinda Mathie wrote: Question about Charm of the Faerie: it reads “(1/room).” Is that meant to convey that the user may attack a Ranged-only monster with a Melee attack once per room, or during one room only? The latter seems more useful.


In usage parlance 1/game would mean one room only, 1/room would mean one combat round. Unless I am missing something.


I agree.

1/game would mean you can use this effect one time in each game

1/room would mean you can use this effect one time in each room.

If it meant all of one room, it would say: May attack a ranged-only monster with melee attacks for room (1/game)


Thanks. Appreciate the discussion. I think that’s my question. Is it meant to say: May attack a ranged-only monster with melee attacks for room (1/game), or is it truly limited to one attack per room? If it is the latter, it’s a bit odd. Maybe one run per season has a room with ranged-only monster. This charm would only allow you to make one melee-for-ranged attack. Doesn’t seem like a good use of a Charm slot, unless we’re going to have a lot more ranged-only monsters.
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FINAL 2021 Ultra Rare Token Images! 1 year 3 months ago #90

Jeff Martin wrote:

Wade Schwendemann (Dr. Uid) wrote: I agree that Cranston's is very good. Would +2 Ranged Damage be too weak? Probably not. Would +1 be too weak? Probably.

If Psyferre's allows a third figurine for Bard and Paladin I'm all in! Do we need a damage type?

Ring of quick blessing doesn't change the per game amount anyone can do, but boy oh boy does it change the per round! It is likely far too good for the Druid. (That's right, I said it). Can we just move them to ring of Expertise if we dont want quick blessing to be "non-damage"?

Overall these look great!

Edit: hopefully the rules of the transmute thread dont spply here..


You shall henceforth be known as Dr. Uid! And here is your new profile pic!



ROFL!

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FINAL 2021 Ultra Rare Token Images! 1 year 3 months ago #91

BeLinda Mathie wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Harlax wrote:

BeLinda Mathie wrote: Question about Charm of the Faerie: it reads “(1/room).” Is that meant to convey that the user may attack a Ranged-only monster with a Melee attack once per room, or during one room only? The latter seems more useful.


In usage parlance 1/game would mean one room only, 1/room would mean one combat round. Unless I am missing something.


I agree.

1/game would mean you can use this effect one time in each game

1/room would mean you can use this effect one time in each room.

If it meant all of one room, it would say: May attack a ranged-only monster with melee attacks for room (1/game)


Thanks. Appreciate the discussion. I think that’s my question. Is it meant to say: May attack a ranged-only monster with melee attacks for room (1/game), or is it truly limited to one attack per room? If it is the latter, it’s a bit odd. Maybe one run per season has a room with ranged-only monster. This charm would only allow you to make one melee-for-ranged attack. Doesn’t seem like a good use of a Charm slot, unless we’re going to have a lot more ranged-only monsters.


I hear what you're saying, but this effect is very hard to get in TD for.... reasons?

To be honest I thought it was an entire room the first time I read it.

But - thinking about that - there are not usually (ever???) 2 or more rooms with flying monsters. So if it granted you this ability for a whole room it effectively grants it all the time.

Compare with Gnomish Fizzy Lifting pack which is in a more powerful slot, doesn't grant +1 DEX, but does allow 1/round per combat... which basically means 1/game (but maybe more in Grind or with Lesser Maze)?
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FINAL 2021 Ultra Rare Token Images! 1 year 3 months ago #92

Iross wrote: On a lighter note....

Who feels like doing a theme run where every player equips Psyferre's Spectacles and Figurines of Power: Reaver and Horror to nuke the last monster for 360 damage before the first round of combat starts? :cheer:

+1
Already trying to outfit my crew with as many of these as possible
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FINAL 2021 Ultra Rare Token Images! 1 year 3 months ago #93

Greg wrote:

Iross wrote: On a lighter note....

Who feels like doing a theme run where every player equips Psyferre's Spectacles and Figurines of Power: Reaver and Horror to nuke the last monster for 360 damage before the first round of combat starts? :cheer:

+1
Already trying to outfit my crew with as many of these as possible


Zomg!

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Last edit: by Guedoji.
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FINAL 2021 Ultra Rare Token Images! 1 year 3 months ago #94

Jeff Martin wrote: Regarding the Ring of Quick Blessing...

Maybe the text is poorly worded, so I want to explain what it means. I am seeing all kinds of crazy damage claims that I don't understand. The token reads:

May cast 1st-level
spells as Free
Actions (5/game)
& may Restore
Power as a
Free Action
(Cleric only)

This does not give the classes any more 1st-level spells...just let's them use their 1st-level spells as Free Actions. For the Druid that means up to 3 Free Action Freezing Orbs and for the Cleric 1 Spiritual Hammer. The (5/game) is there in case we have items that grant more 1st level spells...so there is a hard limit on the number of spells the Ring can quicken.


I haven't looked at the details, but I don't think it adds nearly as much as people are claiming. First, you are correct that unless there are lots of bonus spells which go unused, this doesn't add ANY damage to a pure caster. They were going to cast those spells anyway.

For a polymorph/melee build, these CAN be bonus damage, but not to the max spellcasting level. Meaning: if you equip for melee, you won't have the max spell bonus possible OR if you do have the max spell bonus you will have fewer melee bonuses. Either way, you can't just add full value with max spell bonus to a max melee build.

And, of course, nearly all complaints rely on using the charm of spell swapping. Since, even limited, allows 5 attack spells as free actions.

I really think the best way to fix it is to not allow spell swapping to work with level specific free action spells (or, other-phrased: you have to be able to free action the spell BEING swapped, THEN you can swap it down to lower level).
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FINAL 2021 Ultra Rare Token Images! 1 year 3 months ago #95

Guedoji wrote:

Greg wrote:

Iross wrote: On a lighter note....

Who feels like doing a theme run where every player equips Psyferre's Spectacles and Figurines of Power: Reaver and Horror to nuke the last monster for 360 damage before the first round of combat starts? :cheer:

+1
Already trying to outfit my crew with as many of these as possible


Zomg!

Attachment not found


:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
I play Rogue. Occasionally I even play Rogue well.

Current build: tdcharactercreator.com/#/character/edit/54550c58-0964-4b14-af03-5c485ca2ef70
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FINAL 2021 Ultra Rare Token Images! 1 year 3 months ago #96

Matthew Hayward wrote:

BeLinda Mathie wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Harlax wrote:

BeLinda Mathie wrote: Question about Charm of the Faerie: it reads “(1/room).” Is that meant to convey that the user may attack a Ranged-only monster with a Melee attack once per room, or during one room only? The latter seems more useful.


In usage parlance 1/game would mean one room only, 1/room would mean one combat round. Unless I am missing something.


I agree.

1/game would mean you can use this effect one time in each game

1/room would mean you can use this effect one time in each room.

If it meant all of one room, it would say: May attack a ranged-only monster with melee attacks for room (1/game)


Thanks. Appreciate the discussion. I think that’s my question. Is it meant to say: May attack a ranged-only monster with melee attacks for room (1/game), or is it truly limited to one attack per room? If it is the latter, it’s a bit odd. Maybe one run per season has a room with ranged-only monster. This charm would only allow you to make one melee-for-ranged attack. Doesn’t seem like a good use of a Charm slot, unless we’re going to have a lot more ranged-only monsters.


I hear what you're saying, but this effect is very hard to get in TD for.... reasons?

To be honest I thought it was an entire room the first time I read it.

But - thinking about that - there are not usually (ever???) 2 or more rooms with flying monsters. So if it granted you this ability for a whole room it effectively grants it all the time.

Compare with Gnomish Fizzy Lifting pack which is in a more powerful slot, doesn't grant +1 DEX, but does allow 1/round per combat... which basically means 1/game (but maybe more in Grind or with Lesser Maze)?

The problem with it being for 1 whole room is there is usually only 1 flying monster, at most, in a dungeon. I like the idea that the game guides you toward a hybrid range / melee build, because a mono combat build will have a very tough time in a specific combat. If a mono melee build can equip a single token to negate flying, then I think the mono melee build becomes the default option for almost everyone, which reduces build variety.
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