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TOPIC: FINAL 2021 Ultra Rare Token Images!

FINAL 2021 Ultra Rare Token Images! 1 year 3 months ago #73

Philip Goodman wrote: Cranston's Helpful Hat
I liked the +2 ranged to hit version more.

Charm of the Faerie
Could we swap the +1 Dex to +2 to melee hit? We haven't seen +to hit as a direct stat on charms before and it would be fresh.


I like the idea of more explicit to hit bonuses. My group has just made the transition to hardcore, and an item that gives a bonus to hit would be a huge benefit to several of our players.
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FINAL 2021 Ultra Rare Token Images! 1 year 3 months ago #74

Cranston's Helpful Hat: Currently reads "May equip 1 additional Eyes slot item ... " Should this instead be "May equip 1 additional Eye slot item ... "?

Ring of the Siren: Currently reads "+3 damage as Sonic ... " Should this instead by "+3 Sonic damage ... " (the latter is consistent with Ring of the Yeti)
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FINAL 2021 Ultra Rare Token Images! 1 year 3 months ago #75

Jeff Martin wrote: Regarding the Ring of Quick Blessing...

Maybe the text is poorly worded, so I want to explain what it means. I am seeing all kinds of crazy damage claims that I don't understand. The token reads:

May cast 1st-level
spells as Free
Actions (5/game)
& may Restore
Power as a
Free Action
(Cleric only)

This does not give the classes any more 1st-level spells...just let's them use their 1st-level spells as Free Actions. For the Druid that means up to 3 Free Action Freezing Orbs and for the Cleric 1 Spiritual Hammer. The (5/game) is there in case we have items that grant more 1st level spells...so there is a hard limit on the number of spells the Ring can quicken.


Cross posting this from the Transmute thread.


An Ultra Rare token giving Druids 5 castings of 46 point damage Frozen Orbs = 230 damage

That's an Ultra Rare Token.

The Wizard Class Specific Legendary adds 3 castings of spells as Free Actions. One of which for the Wizard must be a level 1 spell, 2 of which must be at the Elf Wizard if spell swapped spells don't get the free action.

Assuming we can maximize and get 3 FA level 2 spells for the Wizard off their Class Specific Relic it's a net damage gain for the Wizard of

Ray spell - 18 + MEC 18 + spell damage 35 = 61
61*3 = 183

So the Relic token is giving Wizards 183 damage when calculating in the class specific spell doubling bonus on a Class specific necklace at the Relic level

The UR ring, designed for Clerics is giving Druids 11+35 = 46 * 3 = 138 damage on a non Druid specific Ultra Rare over that same 3 rounds of combat.

BUT the Druid still has 2 castings of FA Frozen Orb granted from the Ring for round 4 and 5, bringing their total damage bonus to 230 off an UR Ring.

Wizards do not have the capability of gaining an additional 2 castings of level 2 spells to use off the Relic as they have already used Stoneskin/Lesser Maze to perform the existing conversions.


So the UR ring is stronger than the Class Specific Relic Necklace when calculating it all of it's effects.
Last edit: by Arcanist Kolixela.
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FINAL 2021 Ultra Rare Token Images! 1 year 3 months ago #76

Harlax wrote:

BeLinda Mathie wrote: Question about Charm of the Faerie: it reads “(1/room).” Is that meant to convey that the user may attack a Ranged-only monster with a Melee attack once per room, or during one room only? The latter seems more useful.


In usage parlance 1/game would mean one room only, 1/room would mean one combat round. Unless I am missing something.


I agree.

1/game would mean you can use this effect one time in each game

1/room would mean you can use this effect one time in each room.

If it meant all of one room, it would say: May attack a ranged-only monster with melee attacks for room (1/game)
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FINAL 2021 Ultra Rare Token Images! 1 year 3 months ago #77

Daniel White wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Daniel White wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote: I'll just mention again that the Ring of Quick Blessing in the hands of a Druid is a MASSIVE boost of damage. That's adding a potential of +46 spell damage PER ROUND for 5 rounds in the hands of the Druid. That's adding 200+ damage to Druid over the course of a single Nightmare run.

I'll ask that Wizards be added to that token if you are intent on letting Druids keep it but I personally feel it is WAY WAY WAY too much added damage for a single UR token.


This. Ought to be limited to non-damage spells.


Even with it, Druids come in far below Wizards in spell damage. If it's limited to non-damage spells, Druids come in FAR FAR below Wizards.


Druids should be below wizards in terms of spell damage. Wizards don't get heals.

Even assuming that Druid is "too" far below Wizards in terms of damage, trying to balance the classes with a single UR token is a very bad idea.


If Jeff asking to not get into Dr. Uid fights here didn't do it, me asking probably won't, but could we take discussion of Dr. Uid class design and tradeoffs here:

truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=564&id=251664

Also - that thread is in The Groves which is for Dr. Uid players - so please only post there if you can keep it polite.
Last edit: by Matthew Hayward.
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FINAL 2021 Ultra Rare Token Images! 1 year 3 months ago #78

Jeff Martin wrote:

Wade Schwendemann (Dr. Uid) wrote: I agree that Cranston's is very good. Would +2 Ranged Damage be too weak? Probably not. Would +1 be too weak? Probably.

If Psyferre's allows a third figurine for Bard and Paladin I'm all in! Do we need a damage type?

Ring of quick blessing doesn't change the per game amount anyone can do, but boy oh boy does it change the per round! It is likely far too good for the Druid. (That's right, I said it). Can we just move them to ring of Expertise if we dont want quick blessing to be "non-damage"?

Overall these look great!

Edit: hopefully the rules of the transmute thread dont spply here..


You shall henceforth be known as Dr. Uid! And here is your new profile pic!


Well, I guess the rules of the transmute thread did apply here. Oops.

Jeff Martin wrote:

Simon wrote: The way Psyferre's Spectacles are worded, "May equip +1 Figurine of Power" Does that mean if I can already equip two figurines, the spectacles allow me to equip +1 more figurine? Thus equipping 3 figurines?

If not, Bard and Paladin don't benefit from it's figurine bonus.


Yes...all classes benefit.


YES!
First ever death in True Horde
"Well, with you guarding 2 players, that means you take 90. Are you dead?"
-Incognito

My token shop/trade thread: Wade's Wide World of Wonder 

My Current Paladin Build 
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FINAL 2021 Ultra Rare Token Images! 1 year 3 months ago #79

Jeff Martin wrote:

Wade Schwendemann (Dr. Uid) wrote: I agree that Cranston's is very good. Would +2 Ranged Damage be too weak? Probably not. Would +1 be too weak? Probably.

If Psyferre's allows a third figurine for Bard and Paladin I'm all in! Do we need a damage type?

Ring of quick blessing doesn't change the per game amount anyone can do, but boy oh boy does it change the per round! It is likely far too good for the Druid. (That's right, I said it). Can we just move them to ring of Expertise if we dont want quick blessing to be "non-damage"?

Overall these look great!

Edit: hopefully the rules of the transmute thread dont spply here..


You shall henceforth be known as Dr. Uid! And here is your new profile pic!


So you're saying he gets a familiar that adds a lense slot :whistle:
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FINAL 2021 Ultra Rare Token Images! 1 year 3 months ago #80

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

OrionW wrote:

Jeff Martin wrote: Regarding the Ring of Quick Blessing...

Maybe the text is poorly worded, so I want to explain what it means. I am seeing all kinds of crazy damage claims that I don't understand. The token reads:

May cast 1st-level
spells as Free
Actions (5/game)
& may Restore
Power as a
Free Action
(Cleric only)

This does not give the classes any more 1st-level spells...just let's them use their 1st-level spells as Free Actions. For the Druid that means up to 3 Free Action Freezing Orbs and for the Cleric 1 Spiritual Hammer. The (5/game) is there in case we have items that grant more 1st level spells...so there is a hard limit on the number of spells the Ring can quicken.


People are concerned that the ring allows 5*SD where spell damage is modified based on epic level gear + what ever the caster would do that round normally. The issue with this argument is that with epic level gear abilities should do epic damage. The complaints are mostly from Wizards that don't like the fact that for a few rounds Dr. Uld could do almost as much damage as a Wizard (note not more damage... but maybe 80% of the Wizard's damage).

What would be helpful is to understand what the expectation is for max damage in a Patron run or Epic level module run. Because right now I don't think Dr. Uld is close to the max, but I don't know what TD's expectation is. ;)


In the future please don't make claims about the reasoning for other players making comments.

If you are planning to suggest that a BIS Druid is only capable of producing 500 points of spell damage over 10 rounds of combat and the Wizard is able to do 200 more than PLEASE back it up with numbers indicating that.


If I have mistaken your position I apologize. You did specifically state though that you thought any Dr. Uld build should be 75% as effective as a Wizard. I think it is important that we get to the core issue which is Dr. Uld effectiveness, because if we all understand what TD think the class should do, these balance conversations are easier to have. :)
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FINAL 2021 Ultra Rare Token Images! 1 year 3 months ago #81

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Daniel White wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Daniel White wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote: I'll just mention again that the Ring of Quick Blessing in the hands of a Druid is a MASSIVE boost of damage. That's adding a potential of +46 spell damage PER ROUND for 5 rounds in the hands of the Druid. That's adding 200+ damage to Druid over the course of a single Nightmare run.

I'll ask that Wizards be added to that token if you are intent on letting Druids keep it but I personally feel it is WAY WAY WAY too much added damage for a single UR token.


This. Ought to be limited to non-damage spells.


Even with it, Druids come in far below Wizards in spell damage. If it's limited to non-damage spells, Druids come in FAR FAR below Wizards.


Druids should be below wizards in terms of spell damage. Wizards don't get heals.

Even assuming that Druid is "too" far below Wizards in terms of damage, trying to balance the classes with a single UR token is a very bad idea.


If Jeff asking to not get into Dr. Uid fights here didn't do it, me asking probably won't, but could we take discussion of Dr. Uid class design and tradeoffs here:

truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=564&id=251664

Also - that thread is in The Groves which is for Dr. Uid players - so please only post there if you can keep it polite.


I don't think there is anyway that thread is going to not be heated. It should likely be moved to the general forums.
The topic has been locked.

FINAL 2021 Ultra Rare Token Images! 1 year 3 months ago #82

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Jeff Martin wrote:

Wade Schwendemann (Dr. Uid) wrote: I agree that Cranston's is very good. Would +2 Ranged Damage be too weak? Probably not. Would +1 be too weak? Probably.

If Psyferre's allows a third figurine for Bard and Paladin I'm all in! Do we need a damage type?

Ring of quick blessing doesn't change the per game amount anyone can do, but boy oh boy does it change the per round! It is likely far too good for the Druid. (That's right, I said it). Can we just move them to ring of Expertise if we dont want quick blessing to be "non-damage"?

Overall these look great!

Edit: hopefully the rules of the transmute thread dont spply here..


You shall henceforth be known as Dr. Uid! And here is your new profile pic!


So you're saying he gets a familiar that adds a lense slot :whistle:


It looks like his familiar gets a neck slot too... sheesh
The topic has been locked.

FINAL 2021 Ultra Rare Token Images! 1 year 3 months ago #83

OrionW wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Daniel White wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Daniel White wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote: I'll just mention again that the Ring of Quick Blessing in the hands of a Druid is a MASSIVE boost of damage. That's adding a potential of +46 spell damage PER ROUND for 5 rounds in the hands of the Druid. That's adding 200+ damage to Druid over the course of a single Nightmare run.

I'll ask that Wizards be added to that token if you are intent on letting Druids keep it but I personally feel it is WAY WAY WAY too much added damage for a single UR token.


This. Ought to be limited to non-damage spells.


Even with it, Druids come in far below Wizards in spell damage. If it's limited to non-damage spells, Druids come in FAR FAR below Wizards.


Druids should be below wizards in terms of spell damage. Wizards don't get heals.

Even assuming that Druid is "too" far below Wizards in terms of damage, trying to balance the classes with a single UR token is a very bad idea.


If Jeff asking to not get into Dr. Uid fights here didn't do it, me asking probably won't, but could we take discussion of Dr. Uid class design and tradeoffs here:

truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=564&id=251664

Also - that thread is in The Groves which is for Dr. Uid players - so please only post there if you can keep it polite.


I don't think there is anyway that thread is going to not be heated. It should likely be moved to the general forums.


If that thread gets heated I'd request an admin delete it.

No sense having new bright eyed and bushy tailed Druids walking into a flame war.

I hope we can have a polite discussion about design goals and preferences over there, and all leave more enlightened about other approaches. So far I feel it's been going well.
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FINAL 2021 Ultra Rare Token Images! 1 year 3 months ago #84

OrionW wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

OrionW wrote:

Jeff Martin wrote: Regarding the Ring of Quick Blessing...

Maybe the text is poorly worded, so I want to explain what it means. I am seeing all kinds of crazy damage claims that I don't understand. The token reads:

May cast 1st-level
spells as Free
Actions (5/game)
& may Restore
Power as a
Free Action
(Cleric only)

This does not give the classes any more 1st-level spells...just let's them use their 1st-level spells as Free Actions. For the Druid that means up to 3 Free Action Freezing Orbs and for the Cleric 1 Spiritual Hammer. The (5/game) is there in case we have items that grant more 1st level spells...so there is a hard limit on the number of spells the Ring can quicken.


People are concerned that the ring allows 5*SD where spell damage is modified based on epic level gear + what ever the caster would do that round normally. The issue with this argument is that with epic level gear abilities should do epic damage. The complaints are mostly from Wizards that don't like the fact that for a few rounds Dr. Uld could do almost as much damage as a Wizard (note not more damage... but maybe 80% of the Wizard's damage).

What would be helpful is to understand what the expectation is for max damage in a Patron run or Epic level module run. Because right now I don't think Dr. Uld is close to the max, but I don't know what TD's expectation is. ;)


In the future please don't make claims about the reasoning for other players making comments.

If you are planning to suggest that a BIS Druid is only capable of producing 500 points of spell damage over 10 rounds of combat and the Wizard is able to do 200 more than PLEASE back it up with numbers indicating that.


If I have mistaken your position I apologize. You did specifically state though that you thought any Dr. Uld build should be 75% as effective as a Wizard. I think it is important that we get to the core issue which is Dr. Uld effectiveness, because if we all understand what TD think the class should do, these balance conversations are easier to have. :)


That is taking my statement out of context.

What I said is that I feel a Druid should be as effective as 75% of the damage output of the Wizard as the Druid is a Hybrid class and can also be 75% as effective a healer as a Cleric and 75% as effective a damage dealer in melee as a Barbarian.

I feel that a hybrid class SHOULD have a measurable difference between it's output and the output of a pure class that does not have the same flexibility.

You even agree that the Druid should not be able to match the Wizard in spell damage. You just refuse to say what % you feel is appropriate.
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