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TOPIC: FINAL 2021 Ultra Rare Token Images!

FINAL 2021 Ultra Rare Token Images! 1 year 3 months ago #49

Fiddy wrote: It seems like we're sorta kinda edging around towards some general ideas here.

I'm going to take a stab at capturing what I think I'm hearing, then others can correct/wordsmith/shoot it down.

It seems to be shaping up that no matter the class, maybe somewhat dependent on the spell level:

  • Unlimited FA of existing Damage = Bad. Boosts per-round damage in difficult to predict ways.
  • Unlimited FA of existing Healing = Ok. Healing happens outside combat without worrying about actions.
  • Unlimited FA of existing Support = Ok. Helps the party more than the individual. Makes Support more likely to be used. Lets player support and still contribute in other ways.

Also, no matter the class, but maybe dependent on the spell level:
  • Limited extra Damage boxes = Ok. There are a finite number of potential combat rounds, so the overall impact is small. Helps casters contribute in Grind more than anything.
  • Limited extra Healing boxes = Bad. Healing can be used outside combat, so these will get used if available.
  • Limited extra Support boxes = Ok. Helps party more than player. Makes Support more likely to be used.

Agree, and thanks for boiling it down.
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FINAL 2021 Ultra Rare Token Images! 1 year 3 months ago #50

Matthew Hayward wrote: Let me take one more stab at getting Cranston’s Helpful Hat toned down:

1. Using the extra eyes for Snipers Spectacles has this token give +3/+3 to ranged in the head slot.

Compare with UR Crown of Might at +1/+1 to melee.

+3/+3 to ranged feels like a relic belt, or a relic wrist upgrade to UR Bracers of Supreme Archery.

2. As Ranged now includes all spells, it’s +3 to spell damage at UR - something we’ve never seen - with the extra lenses you can equip Lenses of Focus for +3 to physical ranged, +4 to spell, +1 to healing.


Head slot feels very weak in general - this feels like a big jump up to me.


This. +1.
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FINAL 2021 Ultra Rare Token Images! 1 year 3 months ago #51

Arcanist Kolixela wrote: I'll just mention again that the Ring of Quick Blessing in the hands of a Druid is a MASSIVE boost of damage. That's adding a potential of +46 spell damage PER ROUND for 5 rounds in the hands of the Druid. That's adding 200+ damage to Druid over the course of a single Nightmare run.

I'll ask that Wizards be added to that token if you are intent on letting Druids keep it but I personally feel it is WAY WAY WAY too much added damage for a single UR token.


This. Ought to be limited to non-damage spells.
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FINAL 2021 Ultra Rare Token Images! 1 year 3 months ago #52

Cranston's Helpful Hat
I liked the +2 ranged to hit version more.

Charm of the Faerie
Could we swap the +1 Dex to +2 to melee hit? We haven't seen +to hit as a direct stat on charms before and it would be fresh.
Playing True Dungeon since 2012.
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FINAL 2021 Ultra Rare Token Images! 1 year 3 months ago #53

Daniel White wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote: I'll just mention again that the Ring of Quick Blessing in the hands of a Druid is a MASSIVE boost of damage. That's adding a potential of +46 spell damage PER ROUND for 5 rounds in the hands of the Druid. That's adding 200+ damage to Druid over the course of a single Nightmare run.

I'll ask that Wizards be added to that token if you are intent on letting Druids keep it but I personally feel it is WAY WAY WAY too much added damage for a single UR token.


This. Ought to be limited to non-damage spells.


Even with it, Druids come in far below Wizards in spell damage. If it's limited to non-damage spells, Druids come in FAR FAR below Wizards.
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FINAL 2021 Ultra Rare Token Images! 1 year 3 months ago #54

Simon wrote: The way Psyferre's Spectacles are worded, "May equip +1 Figurine of Power" Does that mean if I can already equip two figurines, the spectacles allow me to equip +1 more figurine? Thus equipping 3 figurines?

If not, Bard and Paladin don't benefit from it's figurine bonus.


Yes...all classes benefit.
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FINAL 2021 Ultra Rare Token Images! 1 year 3 months ago #55

Mike Steele wrote:

Daniel White wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote: I'll just mention again that the Ring of Quick Blessing in the hands of a Druid is a MASSIVE boost of damage. That's adding a potential of +46 spell damage PER ROUND for 5 rounds in the hands of the Druid. That's adding 200+ damage to Druid over the course of a single Nightmare run.

I'll ask that Wizards be added to that token if you are intent on letting Druids keep it but I personally feel it is WAY WAY WAY too much added damage for a single UR token.


This. Ought to be limited to non-damage spells.


Even with it, Druids come in far below Wizards in spell damage. If it's limited to non-damage spells, Druids come in FAR FAR below Wizards.


Druids should be below wizards in terms of spell damage. Wizards don't get heals.

Even assuming that Druid is "too" far below Wizards in terms of damage, trying to balance the classes with a single UR token is a very bad idea.
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FINAL 2021 Ultra Rare Token Images! 1 year 3 months ago #56

I assume the spec's give an additional figurine? or is it a 2nd figurine?

just saw Jeff's post two back, that's awesome
--
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Last edit: by macxdmg.
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FINAL 2021 Ultra Rare Token Images! 1 year 3 months ago #57

Fiddy wrote: It seems like we're sorta kinda edging around towards some general ideas here.

I'm going to take a stab at capturing what I think I'm hearing, then others can correct/wordsmith/shoot it down.

It seems to be shaping up that no matter the class, maybe somewhat dependent on the spell level:

  • Unlimited FA of existing Damage = Bad. Boosts per-round damage in difficult to predict ways.
  • Unlimited FA of existing Healing = Ok. Healing happens outside combat without worrying about actions.
  • Unlimited FA of existing Support = Ok. Helps the party more than the individual. Makes Support more likely to be used. Lets player support and still contribute in other ways.

Also, no matter the class, but maybe dependent on the spell level:
  • Limited extra Damage boxes = Ok. There are a finite number of potential combat rounds, so the overall impact is small. Helps casters contribute in Grind more than anything.
  • Limited extra Healing boxes = Bad. Healing can be used outside combat, so these will get used if available.
  • Limited extra Support boxes = Ok. Helps party more than player. Makes Support more likely to be used.


Disagree.

Ok on swapping between standard and free action of stuff on card. So first three items are ok, ok, ok.

Not ok on adding additional boxes. So last three items are not ok, not ok, not ok.

Additional boxes combined with ability to free action them, swap them around and possibly replace with future spellbook is an issue.

Selective addition of boxes or use of a box without marking off is a better way to manage within the current token set
Last edit: by edwin.
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FINAL 2021 Ultra Rare Token Images! 1 year 3 months ago #58

Wade Schwendemann (Dr. Uid) wrote: I agree that Cranston's is very good. Would +2 Ranged Damage be too weak? Probably not. Would +1 be too weak? Probably.

If Psyferre's allows a third figurine for Bard and Paladin I'm all in! Do we need a damage type?

Ring of quick blessing doesn't change the per game amount anyone can do, but boy oh boy does it change the per round! It is likely far too good for the Druid. (That's right, I said it). Can we just move them to ring of Expertise if we dont want quick blessing to be "non-damage"?

Overall these look great!

Edit: hopefully the rules of the transmute thread dont spply here..


You shall henceforth be known as Dr. Uid! And here is your new profile pic!

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FINAL 2021 Ultra Rare Token Images! 1 year 3 months ago #59

edwin wrote:

Fiddy wrote: It seems like we're sorta kinda edging around towards some general ideas here.

I'm going to take a stab at capturing what I think I'm hearing, then others can correct/wordsmith/shoot it down.

It seems to be shaping up that no matter the class, maybe somewhat dependent on the spell level:

  • Unlimited FA of existing Damage = Bad. Boosts per-round damage in difficult to predict ways.
  • Unlimited FA of existing Healing = Ok. Healing happens outside combat without worrying about actions.
  • Unlimited FA of existing Support = Ok. Helps the party more than the individual. Makes Support more likely to be used. Lets player support and still contribute in other ways.

Also, no matter the class, but maybe dependent on the spell level:
  • Limited extra Damage boxes = Ok. There are a finite number of potential combat rounds, so the overall impact is small. Helps casters contribute in Grind more than anything.
  • Limited extra Healing boxes = Bad. Healing can be used outside combat, so these will get used if available.
  • Limited extra Support boxes = Ok. Helps party more than player. Makes Support more likely to be used.


Disagree.

Ok on swapping between standard and free action of stuff on card. So first three items are ok, ok, ok.

Not ok on adding additional boxes. So last three items are not ok, not ok, not ok.


I'd say I'm more conservative. If it were up to me, none of these things would be on tokens. To me, all of these are things that should be done at the character card level. My view is that putting them on tokens has negative consequences, in terms of making character card revisions much harder, and in introducing power creep. Each of these items is a multiplier.

I think the only reason people are OK with FA of existing support is that existing support spells are weak. So, making them free actions, as is happening this year, is going to make it harder to have support spells which are strong out of the gate, because doing so makes the free action support too powerful.

Edit: While I appreciate Jeff including us, one of the weaknesses of "design by committee" is that it's hard for people to focus on the long term.
Last edit: by Daniel White.
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FINAL 2021 Ultra Rare Token Images! 1 year 3 months ago #60

edwin wrote:

Fiddy wrote: It seems like we're sorta kinda edging around towards some general ideas here.

I'm going to take a stab at capturing what I think I'm hearing, then others can correct/wordsmith/shoot it down.

It seems to be shaping up that no matter the class, maybe somewhat dependent on the spell level:

  • Unlimited FA of existing Damage = Bad. Boosts per-round damage in difficult to predict ways.
  • Unlimited FA of existing Healing = Ok. Healing happens outside combat without worrying about actions.
  • Unlimited FA of existing Support = Ok. Helps the party more than the individual. Makes Support more likely to be used. Lets player support and still contribute in other ways.

Also, no matter the class, but maybe dependent on the spell level:
  • Limited extra Damage boxes = Ok. There are a finite number of potential combat rounds, so the overall impact is small. Helps casters contribute in Grind more than anything.
  • Limited extra Healing boxes = Bad. Healing can be used outside combat, so these will get used if available.
  • Limited extra Support boxes = Ok. Helps party more than player. Makes Support more likely to be used.


Disagree.

Ok on swapping between standard and free action of stuff on card. So first three items are ok, ok, ok.

Not ok on adding additional boxes. So last three items are not ok, not ok, not ok.


I should have mentioned... if you're going to disagree, I'm cool with that. But please explain in a sentence or two for each (like I did with my reasoning), why?
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