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TOPIC: 2021 Wizard Relic/Legendary Almost Final!

2021 Wizard Relic/Legendary Almost Final! 7 months 3 weeks ago #85

I think we should ask Keff for 1 additional round of revision after the upcoming one if possible due to the late design massive design change. Hopefully he's planning at least 2 more passes on all tokens
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2021 Wizard Relic/Legendary Almost Final! 7 months 3 weeks ago #86

Arcanist Kolixela wrote: I think we should ask Keff for 1 additional round of revision after the upcoming one if possible due to the late design massive design change. Hopefully he's planning at least 2 more passes on all tokens


Makes sense, but I'd ask Jeff. Not sure what Keff will do for us.
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2021 Wizard Relic/Legendary Almost Final! 7 months 3 weeks ago #87

Dave wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote: I think we should ask Keff for 1 additional round of revision after the upcoming one if possible due to the late design massive design change. Hopefully he's planning at least 2 more passes on all tokens


Makes sense, but I'd ask Jeff. Not sure what Keff will do for us.


Lol - if the past is any guide we'll get at least 2 versions of Final ;). And maybe a few +5 Blessed Designs of Finality after that.
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2021 Wizard Relic/Legendary Almost Final! 7 months 3 weeks ago #88

Dave wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote: I think we should ask Keff for 1 additional round of revision after the upcoming one if possible due to the late design massive design change. Hopefully he's planning at least 2 more passes on all tokens


Makes sense, but I'd ask Jeff. Not sure what Keff will do for us.


Keff is Jeff's twin brother. He's the one who approves all the fun ideas. I say we ask Keff :P
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2021 Wizard Relic/Legendary Almost Final! 7 months 3 weeks ago #89

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Dave wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote: I think we should ask Keff for 1 additional round of revision after the upcoming one if possible due to the late design massive design change. Hopefully he's planning at least 2 more passes on all tokens


Makes sense, but I'd ask Jeff. Not sure what Keff will do for us.


Lol - if the past is any guide we'll get at least 2 versions of Final ;). And maybe a few +5 Blessed Designs of Finality after that.


Hopefully so. I just don't see this particular token getting resolved in the next revision (unless he takes my design suggestion directly. We are getting very positive responses to that one ^_^)
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2021 Wizard Relic/Legendary Almost Final! 7 months 3 weeks ago #90

I would be for increasing the skill check bonus and not making it automatic. Skill checks are a cool mechanic, and should have a point.

I don't know how I feel about removing the MEC 1/ round limitation. I feel at least that if that happens, it should be on the relic or legendary, and not on MEC as a UR. MEC as a UR is already far more powerful than the baseline for the charm slot.
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2021 Wizard Relic/Legendary Almost Final! 7 months 3 weeks ago #91

I also prefer incentivizing doing the skill test over auto passing it. As a combat DM, the Wizard test is the fastest test to administer.(*) "Show me X" *point* done. Experienced players should be decisive about it. I see that as part of the skill, the faster you can point at the correct plane the more time you save.

(*) Assuming sane room layout. If someone put the planes board clear across the room during setup, I'll be moving it right next to where I want the spell casters lining up.
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2021 Wizard Relic/Legendary Almost Final! 7 months 3 weeks ago #92

Daniel White wrote: I would be for increasing the skill check bonus and not making it automatic. Skill checks are a cool mechanic, and should have a point.

I don't know how I feel about removing the MEC 1/ round limitation. I feel at least that if that happens, it should be on the relic or legendary, and not on MEC as a UR. MEC as a UR is already far more powerful than the baseline for the charm slot.


I'm not so sure about that. Trading 10 HP for 20 damage (3rd level) or 11 damage (1st level plus skill check) isnt OP IMO.

If it did spell bonus as well, then yes, I would agree.
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2021 Wizard Relic/Legendary Almost Final! 7 months 3 weeks ago #93

Daniel White wrote: I would be for increasing the skill check bonus and not making it automatic. Skill checks are a cool mechanic, and should have a point.

I don't know how I feel about removing the MEC 1/ round limitation. I feel at least that if that happens, it should be on the relic or legendary, and not on MEC as a UR. MEC as a UR is already far more powerful than the baseline for the charm slot.


That suggestion is at the relic level not the UR
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2021 Wizard Relic/Legendary Almost Final! 7 months 3 weeks ago #94

My gut initial reaction of this one was that it is sweet. These last two iterations had me thinking they were awesome right out of the gate.

Reducing the Evoker's HP loss actually has me excited for the effect now. The transparency around Wizard balancing on your end, Jeff, is greatly appreciated; that adds to my liking of this effect/design. Losing the spellbook and familiar along the way is a bummer, but they are proper effects that deserve their own time in the spotlight. I think delaying their abilities is a good call -even as much as I liked them.

The sliding ability on the legendary is super cool -and triple damage too. WOW -that is gonna be awesome when that lands. I've always enjoyed the sliding spells, but I hope this will get others amped up to mix it up at the combat board.

The boost to the skill check is neat too. I do really like the idea of the big skill check still from last version; taking tests out of the game entirely doesn't feel quite right. If streamlining is the goal, this will achieve it though.

If auto success is only present for speed purposes, would a planar chart sticker on the combat board do the trick? The player will already by next to the board as to speak to the DM, plus it might "hide" the combat rooms better as the astral plane won't just be hanging in the corner. I'm still going to advocate for a method to indicate that planar charts are memorized and damage included that way; in which case the tests still had to be completed -just in advance.


I would like to say my thoughts haven't been swayed a bit after reading some comments, but they have. I can see how some people don't find these exciting. Its weird for the non-Bard Cabal members since there weren't really any casting based neck slot UR's (besides MoMM) to base an opinion on for a relic/legendary progression for each unique class. Some small things that might push people to love the designs and be excited:

1.One suggestion would be to just give and addition +3/+5 focus at the relic/legendary levels to "simulate passing" the checks and still have a smaller boosted skill check (+6)? This way those that don't want to don't have to, but those that do still have a leg up on those that do not test.

2.Can the relic give slide spells the ability to crit but only on a 20 and only for 2x? A small chance of success, but this leads to the progression of the legendary? Unless the sliding part of the legendary is supposed to be the fun effect, in which case forget this part.

3.Another idea would be to give the relic the option to cast a spell as a free action X/game and the legendary be Y/game. Or something of the sort. This would align with the "powering up" of the relic to legendary progression seen in other class necklaces (i.e. Fury with the Barbarian). Would also alleviate the pain many felt from the loss of the (at one point) 8 Free Action spells and still be good with the Cabal set.

4.Allowing the MEC to double all damage of a spell when evoked on a certain frequency.

Any of these would be cool, definitely not all.


Overall, I still think these are awesome and certainly can't wait to slide that 19 and make an arcane explosion. I still think it's an awesome time to be a Wizard.
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2021 Wizard Relic/Legendary Almost Final! 7 months 3 weeks ago #95

Bringing it back to the top since we have a few miscommunications on what's being suggested.

Ultra Rare
Mad Evoker's Charm
As existing but removing the 20 INT requirement to be in line with the change to Lenses of Focus


Suggested Relic
Mad Evoker's Necklace
Improved Mad Evoking - spend 5 HP - doubles the base damage of all spells cast this turn
Improved Spell Checks - +3 base damage on a failed skill check, +9 base damage on a successful skill check. Spell Slides are considered skill checks for the +9 base damage


Suggested Legendary
Jeffagorgon's Crazed Evoker's Amulet
Occam's Razor = spend 5 HP - doubles the damage of all spells cast this turn (base and bonus)
Perfected Spell Checks - +6 base damage on a failed skill check, +12 base damage on a successful skill check. Spell slides count as skill checks for the successful +12 damage
Perfect Accuracy = Spell Slides critical on a 19-20 (x3 critical as presented by Jeff?)
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2021 Wizard Relic/Legendary Almost Final! 7 months 3 weeks ago #96

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Daniel White wrote: I would be for increasing the skill check bonus and not making it automatic. Skill checks are a cool mechanic, and should have a point.

I don't know how I feel about removing the MEC 1/ round limitation. I feel at least that if that happens, it should be on the relic or legendary, and not on MEC as a UR. MEC as a UR is already far more powerful than the baseline for the charm slot.


I'm not so sure about that. Trading 10 HP for 20 damage (3rd level) or 11 damage (1st level plus skill check) isnt OP IMO.

If it did spell bonus as well, then yes, I would agree.


Trade 5 hp for 20 dmg?

Then FA cast a dart and trade 5 hp for 16?

Then add the damage modifier twice for another ~70?
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