TOPIC: 2021 Fighter Relic/Legendary Almost Final!

Kirk Bauer wrote: The Fighter Legendary is better, I like it. But the Relic is too strong.

All UR neck items to date have been +6 or +7 to stats. Normally relics are a small step up (+1 to hit/damage for weapons, +2 AC (Ring of Protection +4), or +5 DEX (Moonhide Robe) to +7 DEX and +3 INT (Moonhide Robe).

This Relic goes from +7 to stats (UR) to +14 to stats (Relic) and also gives a bonus to reflex saves. My suggestion: drop the +3 to DEX bonus from the token.

We've already been through this a few times but why not one more time, at the 11th hour before the end of token development deadline.

Medallion of the Sweetwoods

Is the base item for our relic.

It comes with 4 CON and 3 DEX.
These stats get transferred into the relic/legendary.
The STR is from other items. Dropping the DEX or CON would make little sense.
So you could adjust the STR but that stat is necessary to be on par with the other Class necks.
So maybe we can just leave things the way they are please and thanks.

Tim wrote:

Aaron Jozwiak wrote: As a Deathcleaver user, I was happy accepting the risk trade off of not using a shield and losing the bonus to Reflex.

Could two-handed weapon users like me please get the improved crit?

It feels weird to be 1-handed only since it does cut out the other half of the fighters.

+1, I completely agree.

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Harlax wrote:

SnakeEyes (Eric) wrote:

Tim wrote:

Aaron Jozwiak wrote: As a Deathcleaver user, I was happy accepting the risk trade off of not using a shield and losing the bonus to Reflex.

Could two-handed weapon users like me please get the improved crit?

It feels weird to be 1-handed only since it does cut out the other half of the fighters.

The discussion was that these class specific Legendaries were meant to further distinguish the classes from one another. The 2-handed weapon bonus is on the Barbarian token and not here for that reason. Adding it here might also make a 2-handed weapon more effective in the hands of a Fighter than a Barbarian which is should not be.

IMO, I think it's fine for a Fighter to chose to use a 2-handed weapon, but they shouldn't get a bonus for it.

Its a compromise.

If you gave me the proverbial magic wand your wish would be granted. Not to be a downer, but we have had a tough slog on this design with a lot of back and forth. We are more like to lose the enhanced crit than to expand it the longer this goes on. .

Yeah - take a cue from the Wizards and take a win and get off the field .

Next version might be: No stat bonuses, declare 3 numbers on the board between 2 and 16, if you slide on those numbers and the result is a hit, add that number to your damage total and it counts as a crit, 1/room.

I’ll say it again. As hard as we have fought to get any expanded crit back, we are more likely to have it nerfed again than enhanced at this point. I’m kind of surprised we got even this much. You two handers got nothing from this version of expanded crit? Neither did we Thor’s users.

Good idea about the name! Double Strike it is! It does the same thing as earlier described with Whirlwind Attack -- only Smakdown must scream "Double Dragon!" whenever he launches his puck if he wants it to work for him.

Jeff Martin wrote: Good idea about the name! Double Strike it is! It does the same thing as earlier described with Whirlwind Attack -- only Smakdown must scream "Double Dragon!" whenever he launches his puck if he wants it to work for him.

Like it.

Power attack! Double dragon! I want to see that.

Shhh. Don’t give the Monks any ideas.

Harlax wrote: Shhh. Don’t give the Monks any ideas.

I'll trade ya two extra psychic uses for Double Strike? =)

The Token development, while deep in comments goes really quickly, and really only involve a sliver of the community. As such I'm sure there's a spectrum of opinions out there that aren’t reflected in these threads. This is my perspective for what it's worth, your opinion may differ.

I like 2h dwarf fighter because I think it's cool.

I'm disappointed that the crit is range is only for 1h, and I'm also disappointed that both tokens reward 1h. (Vs being design for both play styles)

I've always taken the core of the fighter in TD to be flexibility in equipment, being the master of all weapons, and doing damage. Thematically I think it makes sense to support Fighters that are 1Hd and 2Hd. As I said previously; push the Barb to 2hd, and push the Paladin to 1h + shield, but support the fighters for both. This relic and legendary set the president to new players of what fighters should build to.

Given that, and when I first saw the Deathcleaver I jumped on board that train.. (And gave input during its development). Since then I've seen all the 2h love go to the Barb. Personally I'm going to only build toward one legendary (if any). Ideally it would be this one. If the TD landscape is changing toward fighters should be 1h + shield.. Then that and these tokens are kind of a fizzle from my perspective.

What's the most fun part of being a dwarf fighter to me.. It's when I crit and can do some damage and feel I've earned my keep. Jeff original Viv's was exciting to me because it expanded what I love about my play style / class. The rest of the tweaks to the stats, and balancing, aren’t interesting to me. I'm not planning of being BIS so there will always be room somewhere to add a stat booster.

Anyway, again this is just my perspective.

And at the end of the day though, I completely support Jeff's vision of TD, including his classes and token decisions. Thanks for listening, and thanks to Jeff for letting us be a part of the process.

FatalDrakkon wrote:

Kirk Bauer wrote: The Fighter Legendary is better, I like it. But the Relic is too strong.

All UR neck items to date have been +6 or +7 to stats. Normally relics are a small step up (+1 to hit/damage for weapons, +2 AC (Ring of Protection +4), or +5 DEX (Moonhide Robe) to +7 DEX and +3 INT (Moonhide Robe).

This Relic goes from +7 to stats (UR) to +14 to stats (Relic) and also gives a bonus to reflex saves. My suggestion: drop the +3 to DEX bonus from the token.

We've already been through this a few times but why not one more time, at the 11th hour before the end of token development deadline.

Medallion of the Sweetwoods

Is the base item for our relic.

It comes with 4 CON and 3 DEX.
These stats get transferred into the relic/legendary.
The STR is from other items. Dropping the DEX or CON would make little sense.
So you could adjust the STR but that stat is necessary to be on par with the other Class necks.
So maybe we can just leave things the way they are please and thanks.

This is a bad argument.

It makes the jump from UR to Relic:

+7 STR, and reflex bonus on shield.

That is a bonkers jump compared to any other UR to Relic bump.

A much better argument is this token is UR Medallion of Valhalla + UR Stu-pendous Pendant (and +1 STR and the shield bonus) - as combining two URs from the same slot into one is a known Relic effect.

I do think this token would be fine toned down some (losing 1 STR, for example) - but also think it's OK as is.

Jeff Martin wrote: Good idea about the name! Double Strike it is! It does the same thing as earlier described with Whirlwind Attack -- only Smakdown must scream "Double Dragon!" whenever he launches his puck if he wants it to work for him.

+1 for any keywords that also describe the power they are naming.

+2 for making Smack yell in the dungeon.

With the inclusion of power attack the strength on the relic is needed. Remember there is a great deal of people out there that is not BIS. Low to midrange fighters will need all the strength they can find to compensate the -10 to hit to use this mechanic.

Let’s leave it alone