TOPIC: 2021 Ultra Rare Almost Final!

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: I'd ask again for the Druids and maybe Clerics be added to the Ring of Power. It's a basic Spellcasting token, and it should have all the spellcasters on it. It doesn't seem overpowered to use it in each room for a healing spell, but if that's the reason the Druid and Cleric aren't on it, it can specify non-healing spells only.

While we are at it put Wizards on the ring of quick charming. It's a core spellcaster ring.

Honestly just put the Cleric UR back to Cleric only like the Wizard UR is. Don't weaken the cleric designed UR just to give Druids another token

Wizard UR isn't Wizard only, Bards have been added (not something I have an issue with, for the record).

NightGod wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: I'd ask again for the Druids and maybe Clerics be added to the Ring of Power. It's a basic Spellcasting token, and it should have all the spellcasters on it. It doesn't seem overpowered to use it in each room for a healing spell, but if that's the reason the Druid and Cleric aren't on it, it can specify non-healing spells only.

While we are at it put Wizards on the ring of quick charming. It's a core spellcaster ring.

Honestly just put the Cleric UR back to Cleric only like the Wizard UR is. Don't weaken the cleric designed UR just to give Druids another token

Wizard UR isn't Wizard only, Bards have been added (not something I have an issue with, for the record).

Pretty sure the transmute is MEC.

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: I'd ask again for the Druids and maybe Clerics be added to the Ring of Power. It's a basic Spellcasting token, and it should have all the spellcasters on it. It doesn't seem overpowered to use it in each room for a healing spell, but if that's the reason the Druid and Cleric aren't on it, it can specify non-healing spells only.

While we are at it put Wizards on the ring of quick charming. It's a core spellcaster ring.

Honestly just put the Cleric UR back to Cleric only like the Wizard UR is. Don't weaken the cleric designed UR just to give Druids another token

The Druid hate is strong with this one...

Lol.

What about my idea Mike? Add both to one, remove druid from the other?

Wade, the Druid has very little in this set, I'd definitely prefer to stay on the one with the Cleric (nerfed as it is), and have Druid and Cleric added to Ring of Power. It seems pretty unbalanced for the Wizard to be getting bonus spells from both the Staff and Ring of Power without Druids and Clerics having access to either. If Druids and Clerics aren't allowed on it, I'd much rather it just be a +2 Staff of Power reprint than another bonus spell per turn for just the Wizard.

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

NightGod wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: I'd ask again for the Druids and maybe Clerics be added to the Ring of Power. It's a basic Spellcasting token, and it should have all the spellcasters on it. It doesn't seem overpowered to use it in each room for a healing spell, but if that's the reason the Druid and Cleric aren't on it, it can specify non-healing spells only.

While we are at it put Wizards on the ring of quick charming. It's a core spellcaster ring.

Honestly just put the Cleric UR back to Cleric only like the Wizard UR is. Don't weaken the cleric designed UR just to give Druids another token

Wizard UR isn't Wizard only, Bards have been added (not something I have an issue with, for the record).

Pretty sure the transmute is MEC.

Ah, my bad, I thought you were talking about the UR rings.

Mike Steele wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: I'd ask again for the Druids and maybe Clerics be added to the Ring of Power. It's a basic Spellcasting token, and it should have all the spellcasters on it. It doesn't seem overpowered to use it in each room for a healing spell, but if that's the reason the Druid and Cleric aren't on it, it can specify non-healing spells only.

While we are at it put Wizards on the ring of quick charming. It's a core spellcaster ring.

Honestly just put the Cleric UR back to Cleric only like the Wizard UR is. Don't weaken the cleric designed UR just to give Druids another token

The Druid hate is strong with this one...

Lol.

What about my idea Mike? Add both to one, remove druid from the other?

Wade, the Druid has very little in this set, I'd definitely prefer to stay on the one with the Cleric (nerfed as it is), and have Druid and Cleric added to Ring of Power. It seems pretty unbalanced for the Wizard to be getting bonus spells from both the Staff and Ring of Power without Druids and Clerics having access to either. If Druids and Clerics aren't allowed on it, I'd much rather it just be a +2 Staff of Power reprint than another bonus spell per turn for just the Wizard.

charm of power does not add a bonus spell per turn. It adds a Standard Action spell per room. SLIGHTLY different things.

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: I'd ask again for the Druids and maybe Clerics be added to the Ring of Power. It's a basic Spellcasting token, and it should have all the spellcasters on it. It doesn't seem overpowered to use it in each room for a healing spell, but if that's the reason the Druid and Cleric aren't on it, it can specify non-healing spells only.

While we are at it put Wizards on the ring of quick charming. It's a core spellcaster ring.

Honestly just put the Cleric UR back to Cleric only like the Wizard UR is. Don't weaken the cleric designed UR just to give Druids another token

The Druid hate is strong with this one...

Lol.

What about my idea Mike? Add both to one, remove druid from the other?

Wade, the Druid has very little in this set, I'd definitely prefer to stay on the one with the Cleric (nerfed as it is), and have Druid and Cleric added to Ring of Power. It seems pretty unbalanced for the Wizard to be getting bonus spells from both the Staff and Ring of Power without Druids and Clerics having access to either. If Druids and Clerics aren't allowed on it, I'd much rather it just be a +2 Staff of Power reprint than another bonus spell per turn for just the Wizard.

charm of power does not add a bonus spell per turn. It adds a Standard Action spell per room. SLIGHTLY different things.

I didn't say it was Free Action. It's a spell that you don't have to mark off of your spell boxes - to me that is a bonus spell.

Mike Steele wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: I'd ask again for the Druids and maybe Clerics be added to the Ring of Power. It's a basic Spellcasting token, and it should have all the spellcasters on it. It doesn't seem overpowered to use it in each room for a healing spell, but if that's the reason the Druid and Cleric aren't on it, it can specify non-healing spells only.

While we are at it put Wizards on the ring of quick charming. It's a core spellcaster ring.

Honestly just put the Cleric UR back to Cleric only like the Wizard UR is. Don't weaken the cleric designed UR just to give Druids another token

The Druid hate is strong with this one...

Oh I'm not hating on Druids with this comment. I promise you that.

Pushing the Druid on the ring has caused the CLERIC SPECIFIC ring to be weakened for Clerics by the addition of Druids to the ring. That's not acceptable. Remove Druids and restore the original design of the token.

I looked at all versions of that ring, saw how strong it would be for Wizards, knew that adding Wizard would require nerfing the item and did the honorable thing. I DIDN'T ask to be put on the ring, even knowing how massive of a DPS boost that ring would be in our hands.


So far this design cycle I've seen you ask

Put Druids on the Ring of Expertise
Put Druids on the Ring of Quick Blessings
Put Druids on the Mad Evoker's Charm

And i've seen you state multiple times that Druids are weaker healers than Clerics and weaker spellcasters than Wizards multiple times, been shown the math doesn't agree with you and had you continue to spout it.

This is the year for the Wizard Fighter and Cleric legendary tokens. Maybe just step away from trying to push the Druid onto the tokens and just let the Clerics and Wizards get their own class legendaries without having them nerfed to serve Druids.

Jeff has already said he will be giving all existing legendary class tokens an overview after this design phase is finished. Just wait for that and push for a positive change on your class legendary neck.

Mike Steele wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: I'd ask again for the Druids and maybe Clerics be added to the Ring of Power. It's a basic Spellcasting token, and it should have all the spellcasters on it. It doesn't seem overpowered to use it in each room for a healing spell, but if that's the reason the Druid and Cleric aren't on it, it can specify non-healing spells only.

While we are at it put Wizards on the ring of quick charming. It's a core spellcaster ring.

Honestly just put the Cleric UR back to Cleric only like the Wizard UR is. Don't weaken the cleric designed UR just to give Druids another token

The Druid hate is strong with this one...

Lol.

What about my idea Mike? Add both to one, remove druid from the other?

Wade, the Druid has very little in this set, I'd definitely prefer to stay on the one with the Cleric (nerfed as it is), and have Druid and Cleric added to Ring of Power. It seems pretty unbalanced for the Wizard to be getting bonus spells from both the Staff and Ring of Power without Druids and Clerics having access to either. If Druids and Clerics aren't allowed on it, I'd much rather it just be a +2 Staff of Power reprint than another bonus spell per turn for just the Wizard.

charm of power does not add a bonus spell per turn. It adds a Standard Action spell per room. SLIGHTLY different things.

I didn't say it was Free Action. It's a spell that you don't have to mark off of your spell boxes - to me that is a bonus spell.

Free Spell 1/room is not a bonus spell per turn. They are not the same thing. You are overinflating the value of the token to make it seem stronger than it actually is.

Miathan wrote:

Flik wrote: Besides Spell Swapping there are other ways for clerics to gain a free 1st level spell (Arcane set?) and why wouldn't that also be a FA. Limiting it to 5/game will make it very difficult to keep track or actually remember how many times you used it if you have items that give you 'free' spells.

Plus not a single person has complained it is OP for clerics. Everyone has throught it was appropriate. But since Druid was tacked on people didn't like how good it is for them as a side note. A change back to 'non-damage' spells (along with keeping Ring of Power 'non-healing' spells) seems quite appropriate for flavor too.

The relic and legendary give free lvl 2 spells and unlimited uses of restore ability (because legendary gives an extra one) but now the lvl 1 and restore power is capped?

I don’t think the relic and legendary cleric necks give unlimited uses of the restore abilities, just what we have on our card plus what tokens would give us

Sorry, I meant the two uses we get. Unlimited FAs of the uses we are allowed. I guess I worded that poorly

Drop Druids from the Ring of Quick Prayer, Add Druids to the Ring of Expertise. Make the Ring of Expertise non-healing spells to prevent healing cheese in puzzle rooms.

Gives the same level of strength to Druid Wizard and Bard doing that.

Heck at that point put the Clerics on the Ring of Expertise as well, let's them use 1 free buff spell. Not likely they'd run both rings

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: I'd ask again for the Druids and maybe Clerics be added to the Ring of Power. It's a basic Spellcasting token, and it should have all the spellcasters on it. It doesn't seem overpowered to use it in each room for a healing spell, but if that's the reason the Druid and Cleric aren't on it, it can specify non-healing spells only.

While we are at it put Wizards on the ring of quick charming. It's a core spellcaster ring.

Honestly just put the Cleric UR back to Cleric only like the Wizard UR is. Don't weaken the cleric designed UR just to give Druids another token

The Druid hate is strong with this one...

Oh I'm not hating on Druids with this comment. I promise you that.

Pushing the Druid on the ring has caused the CLERIC SPECIFIC ring to be weakened for Clerics by the addition of Druids to the ring. That's not acceptable. Remove Druids and restore the original design of the token.

I looked at all versions of that ring, saw how strong it would be for Wizards, knew that adding Wizard would require nerfing the item and did the honorable thing. I DIDN'T ask to be put on the ring, even knowing how massive of a DPS boost that ring would be in our hands.


So far this design cycle I've seen you ask

Put Druids on the Ring of Expertise
Put Druids on the Ring of Quick Blessings
Put Druids on the Mad Evoker's Charm

And i've seen you state multiple times that Druids are weaker healers than Clerics and weaker spellcasters than Wizards multiple times, been shown the math doesn't agree with you and had you continue to spout it.

This is the year for the Wizard Fighter and Cleric legendary tokens. Maybe just step away from trying to push the Druid onto the tokens and just let the Clerics and Wizards get their own class legendaries without having them nerfed to serve Druids.

Jeff has already said he will be giving all existing legendary class tokens an overview after this design phase is finished. Just wait for that and push for a positive change on your class legendary neck.

That's just not accurate. Matthew did an analysis of Druid and Cleric and Cleric was slightly ahead after Figurine of Power: Phoenix. And that's before the Class Relic/Legendary. I'd say raising from the dead at full health not to mention Divine Intervention puts the Cleric VERY comfortably ahead.

If there were any Druid vs. Wizard comparisons I missed them. I did see an analysis of Druid which put it at around 900 points over 10 rounds, while I also saw multiple analysis of the Wizard at well over 100 per turn. I don't see how that equals the Druid being able to out-damage the Wizard. And I'm not sure if that's adding in the additional damage the Wizard will be getting from tokens this year.

If you there were, as you say, multiple analysis showing the Druid being more powerful in damage spells than the Wizard, please link to them, as I'd like to see them. I will admit that there were entire pages of comments which I haven't read, so they may well be there and I didn't see them.

Arcanist Kolixela wrote: Pushing the Druid on the ring has caused the CLERIC SPECIFIC ring to be weakened for Clerics by the addition of Druids to the ring. That's not acceptable. Remove Druids and restore the original design of the token.

I would say your thoughts sum up all the Cleric mains in this thread. I'm not opposed to having Druid on there but let's not weaken the token for healing Clerics because we are worried about damage dealing Druids.