TOPIC: 2021 Transmuted Feedback Part Two

Justice wrote:

Harlax wrote:

Justice wrote: I don’t understand the direction of the Fighter legendary. I don’t know what even to say...


I’ll be in the corner rocking myself until the next iteration.

Failed your will save, eh?

Yup stunned for one round


I want to be respectful, I don’t understand the design objective for the fighter legendary. Someone help me see the value in this token?

A few things.

1. In final rooms, sometimes you just die in combat. Like, the monster hits you, and you die. Or - the monster makes you make a save, and if you fail, you die.

This gives you 1 cinematic vengeance action in that case.

But mostly ignore this ability.

2. Whirlwind basically adds 25-33% to your entire damage output, in around 1/2 the dungeons.

Around 1/2 dungeons have 2+ monsters in 1 of 3 or 4 rooms. In those rooms you deal double damage*.

It the token said instead:

Flip a coin in coaching - on a heads you deal double damage in one combat room designated by the designers of this module, would you think it was weak?


* Assuming the multiple monsters are in melee range.

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Justice wrote:

Harlax wrote:

Justice wrote: I don’t understand the direction of the Fighter legendary. I don’t know what even to say...


I’ll be in the corner rocking myself until the next iteration.

Failed your will save, eh?

Yup stunned for one round


I want to be respectful, I don’t understand the design objective for the fighter legendary. Someone help me see the value in this token?

A few things.

1. In final rooms, sometimes you just die in combat. Like, the monster hits you, and you die. Or - the monster makes you make a save, and if you fail, you die.

This gives you 1 cinematic vengeance action in that case.

But mostly ignore this ability.

2. Whirlwind basically adds 25-33% to your entire damage output, in around 1/2 the dungeons.

Around 1/2 dungeons have 2+ monsters in 1 of 3 or 4 rooms. In those rooms you deal double damage*.

It the token said instead:

Flip a coin in coaching - on a heads you deal double damage in one combat room designated by the designers of this module, would you think it was weak?


* Assuming the multiple monsters are in melee range.

If you had the choice between that and automatic quick strike, which would you take?

Miathan wrote:

Endgame wrote: Cleric Relic:

Must the character be dead to be restored to full HP? If so, I need to tell that Paladin to step away from the nearly dead Barbarian and not get all sacrificial or anything. Then I need to tell the rogue to quick stab the Barbarian in the back to finish him off... so I can restore him to life with full HP.

Can the Resurrect be changed to "restore a character to full HP, even if they died this room" or something equivalent?

This change makes the Bards masters of the group heal, while the Cleric is the one to spot heal someone to full. I'll be a little bit envious of the Cleric Amulet mass heal spell, but I'll get over it.

Cleric Legendary
I love divine intervention being back on this token. I like that restore spell and restore power can be cast as FA. I would like one more little thing, I think. Could it have a dex bonus? Now that I have the opportunity to slide a lot more, I would love to use a +3 Hammer, or maybe eventually get a Thor's, but I don't know how I manage to squeeze in a total of +9 dex. I'm probably going to need to dump my plans for the Greater Quicksilver Charm, and there just aren't a ton of other places to turn up dex outside of the kilt.

4* ring
Any chance of making this +3 dex instead of +6 ref? Asking for a friend... yeah, that's it.

Please no to the +dex on the class neck.

I realized that Cranston's opens up Lenses of the Fae to clerics while still allowing LoDS to be used.

While I like Divine Intervention (assuming it is what it was) I'm not in love with the primary power of the legendary being Divine Intervention. I would like a kicker item besides extra restore spell and power, but I'm not terribly upset if I don't end up making the legendary either - I can pickup a +5 ring of focus instead which would have much more overall impact on my build I think.

Flik wrote:

Brokkr wrote: Should the Necklace of Sacred Beads read "May cast 2nd level Spells AND Restore Spell as a Free Action," if the cleric can do both?

Same issue on the UR. We hope it was likely meant as and instead of or.

I fear that wording will lead to a misinterpretation that the token allows you to, at a cost of a single free action, do both casting a spell and restoring something.

Maybe better as:

"As a free action, you may cast a level X spell or restore Y"

Aaron Jozwiak wrote: Are the scrolls consumed in coaching?

Scrolls don't inherently have the ability for the ST dmg bump. Will that be added as a blanket ability for all Wizard spells?

Not explicitly stated one way or the other, but can the scrolls that are added be from any eligible class?[

These were answered in a prior thread, answers are:

1. Scrolls never turned in.

2. All level damage scrolls cast with the Magebook get the ability to be boosted with a skill test. More generally, these are just level 1 spells on the card for ALL purposes (RoSS, Charm of Power, +2 Staff of Power, Restore Spell, etc., etc., etc.)

3. Only scrolls castable by Wizards are eligible for inclusion in the Magebook.

bpsymington wrote: My first reaction when I saw the wizard relic/legendary - me like!

Don't know if my earlier question was answered - since the MEC is part of the benefits, is the INT requirement still in effect - need an INT of 20?

Will be interesting to see how my build would change if I use these instead of the Charm Necklace. I think I can think of a couple charms I could lose without too much trouble.

Sliding spells would become the spells of last resort!

I don't think I've ever cast a boost spell as a wizard.

I think you might be looking at an old image.

None of the current Wizard tokens grant MeC:

truedungeon.com/files/Transmuted21c.jpg

bpsymington wrote: I don't think this would slow combat, other than groups that pass on all skill tests. If they incorporate the new VTD wizard test into ATD (analog TD?), it's easy for the DM to flip to a symbol or show a card and ask, "Okay, what's this," instead of having the wizard cross the room to a planar test board to point to a plane.

If your party is every even close to running out of time (prior to this token), they should definitely be skipping skill tests.

If your party is never even close to running out of time, then, well - it kind of doesn't matter how much damage your Wizard does?

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Justice wrote:

Harlax wrote:

Justice wrote: I don’t understand the direction of the Fighter legendary. I don’t know what even to say...


I’ll be in the corner rocking myself until the next iteration.

Failed your will save, eh?

Yup stunned for one round


I want to be respectful, I don’t understand the design objective for the fighter legendary. Someone help me see the value in this token?

A few things.

1. In final rooms, sometimes you just die in combat. Like, the monster hits you, and you die. Or - the monster makes you make a save, and if you fail, you die.

This gives you 1 cinematic vengeance action in that case.

But mostly ignore this ability. Yep, an ability on a legendary that can be mostly ignored.

2. Whirlwind basically adds 25-33% to your entire damage output, in around 1/2 the dungeons. And I’m ok with that. It could get better with Dungeon design changes.

Around 1/2 dungeons have 2+ monsters in 1 of 3 or 4 rooms. In those rooms you deal double damage*.

It the token said instead:

Flip a coin in coaching - on a heads you deal double damage in one combat room designated by the designers of this module, would you think it was weak?


* Assuming the multiple monsters are in melee range.

isauteikisa wrote: Is the wizard legendary being balanced around MEC? If so, where's the MEC reprint?

Bingo.

If this is printed:

a. We really, really need a MeC reprint.

b. For the sanity of all concerned, we need a statement from TBTP in TokenDB that the effect of the MeC will not be changed - because this is going to lead to neverending fights that MeC is too good as it gives you +30 damage every round.

Matthew Hayward wrote:

isauteikisa wrote: Is the wizard legendary being balanced around MEC? If so, where's the MEC reprint?

Bingo.

If this is printed:

a. We really, really need a MeC reprint.

b. For the sanity of all concerned, we need a statement from TBTP in TokenDB that the effect of the MeC will not be changed - because this is going to lead to neverending fights that MeC is too good as it gives you +30 damage every round.

If left unchanged I agree with you. I almost wonder if this is almost a creative, skill-based way to incorporate a MEC without the drawback?

Fiddy wrote:

Harlax wrote:

Justice wrote:

FatalDrakkon wrote:

Harlax wrote: Anyone making the Fighter Legendary
1). Isn't going to die very often
2) is likely to have a quantity of Mushrooms/Potions to deal with any oopsies
3) may have a Paladin with an available Sacrifice
4) may well have a cleric with the Cleric Relic/Legendary

So the “Fight after Death lite” is pretty marginal. At best.

I still like whirlwind, but it may or may not come into play in any given Dungeon. Very situational. Unless Dungeon design changes.

A significant number of Fighter types were willing to have some reduction of stats on the relic. 5/3/2 or 5/3/4 were two ideas with support based on the abilities on the prior iteration of the Legendary. (More so for the 5/3/2 option). The jump to 7/3/4 creates more incentive to make the legendary.

But I’ll say again, I’m willing to live with situational abilities if it means we keep the stats.

I would be happy going back to the last iteration with stepped progresson on the stats incouraging us to upgrade to legendary and whirlwind and Crit as part of the legendary path.

The attack after death is a fun mechanic but I feel we had some real momementum with the previous iteration.

The problem is you have to die first. In my 50+ games since I joined in 2018 I have never died once prior to room 7 end. From humble beginnings to epic ++ runs it hasn’t happened. Even when I had to solo with moderate gear.

Is the fighter supposed to be a moderately low Damage but resilient class? Is this the intended design? let me know and I’ll just change classes.

Other classes in this very same thread are receiving free actions guaranteed abilities from their legendaries where the fighter is receiving seldom occurring conditional driving features on this token.

A disappointing regression

It’s also a melee only attack, so if it’s a ranged only fight you are hosed. If the monster has initiative and kills you does this mean you get your attack in the second half of the current round or do you truly have wait until the next round?

Question. Does it stack with whirlwind so a second target is included?


If it’s going to be something that rare and conditional, make it spectacular. Blaze Of Glory, may do one melee attack (in next round) after death. The attack Is a hit and a critical regardless of the result of the slide.

I like Blaze of Glory for the name.

Wacky scenario... You're at 1HP, you attack a monster that has retribution damage. So you die. Start of next round you attack again and take retribution (while still dead), and then someone ressurects you. We can ressurect the Fighter half as often.

Plot twist. The monster kills you, but your retribution damage kills the monster.

Harlax wrote: Question. Does it stack with whirlwind so a second target is included?

What makes you think it wouldn't be?

Whirlwind modifies melee attacks.

The new ability grants you a melee attack.