TOPIC: 2021 Transmuted Feedback Part Two

Flik wrote:

Brokkr wrote: Should the Necklace of Sacred Beads read "May cast 2nd level Spells AND Restore Spell as a Free Action," if the cleric can do both?

Same issue on the UR. We hope it was likely meant as and instead of or.

Jeff already stated it was AND for the UR. Assume it was a typo on both

Cleric Relic
Using "AND" rather than "OR" seems more correct, since you are granting the Cleric 2 abilities and not the choice between them.

Otherwise the whole Cleric line looks great, but I'm not a Cleric.

Warrior Relic
Very powerful. Basically the stats from two of the best current Ultra-rare neck items and a bonus for shield users. Too good if anything.

Warrior Legendary
This doesn't seem to be worth the upgrade. Whirlwind is going to be great in rooms with multiple melee targets, but that tends to be one room a year over two dungeons.

Wizard Path
Seems good. The fact that MEC will double the 12 extra damage seems powerful, but I'll wait for some numbers before I say that its too powerful.

Ioun Stone
Love that this hasn't changed.

Light Blues
These all look fine.

Flik wrote:

Fiddy wrote:

David Zych wrote:

Flik wrote: Great changes to the cleric relic (and UR). That progression up to the legendary now makes complete sense. I don't think you'll be getting many complaints about anything on it now!

100% excited for these Cleric tokens! Take my money now.

Be careful. Unlike most (all?) other class Relics/Legendaries, it looks like the UR powers aren't part of the Relic/Legendary. So you'll need to equip the UR Charm as well for full benefit.

Perfect! Take even more of my money!

Yeah, the dovetailing is very elegant IMO. If you choose not to spend the charm slot, you still get FA Prayer (my favorite) and FA Cure Moderate (which is the one you want when you're in a hurry). Or you can go all out and equip the charm in addition.

Jeff Martin wrote: Please try to post your thoughts about the linked Relics and Legendaries in the same post. There is new stuff to debate! Thanks for the good feedback. Be sure to see how they now work with other URs in 2021.

truedungeon.com/files/Transmuted21c.jpg

"May do 1 melee attack (in the next round) after dying on combat" Lol! You really had me there for a minute on that Fighter Legendary, Jeff.

Beertram wrote: I love how Jeff fixed the 'ranged shield' cheese.

I’m sorry I must have missed that. How?

Hmmm... that boost to the skill check really kills sliding spells doesn't it?

Flik wrote:

Beertram wrote: I love how Jeff fixed the 'ranged shield' cheese.

I’m sorry I must have missed that. How?

Relic says "melee shield AC"

Flik wrote:

Beertram wrote: I love how Jeff fixed the 'ranged shield' cheese.

I’m sorry I must have missed that. How?

The token calls out "melee" shield now.

SnakeEyes (Eric) wrote:

Jeff Martin wrote: Please try to post your thoughts about the linked Relics and Legendaries in the same post. There is new stuff to debate! Thanks for the good feedback. Be sure to see how they now work with other URs in 2021.

truedungeon.com/files/Transmuted21c.jpg

"May do 1 melee attack (in the next round) after dying on combat" Lol! You really had me there for a minute on that Fighter Legendary, Jeff.

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I kind of just want to go with the last iteration and run with that but we shall see where the workshopping goes in this thread.

It's going to get pretty loud in this thread now that we are all in the same room again.

In regards to the Wizard legendary,

I don't understand why Wizards are being given improvements without requirements?

Fighter - Straight Stat bumps (which are improvements to some degree than Stu, Valhalla, or Champion alone provide) and and an effect useful for Shield Fighters (I'm a Deathcleaver Glass Cannon, so that Ref bonus doesn't affect me)

Cleric - Just more and more utility & FA to keep the party alive, all straight improvements to their kits.

Wizard - Just feels weak on a class I see people already say is being left behind in usefulness.

1. ST based dmg bump, but only applicable to spells that have that
2. FA Spell Boxes are nice, but not enough when compared to rest of Legendary
3. The utility of adding new spells from scrolls seems nice, but a headache for all GM's.
4. Are the scrolls consumed in coaching?
5. Scrolls don't inherently have the ability for the ST dmg bump. Will that be added as a blanket ability for all Wizard spells?
6. Not explicitly stated one way or the other, but can the scrolls that are added be from any eligible class?

At this point, I have to ask what is the design idea behind the Wizard in comparison to the other classes? Could they not get something that make them better overall that doesn't require ST's?

Off the cuff ideas (to be combined in some fashion):
- +X Eldritch dmg to all spells cast by Wizards
- Spells cast by Wizard ignore Resistances
- MEC applies to scrolls & wands
- MEC eldritch damage to wizard is reduced
- RoSS improves to once per room
- Choose a wand at start of Dungeon: MoMM improved to allow use of twice per round with out needing multiple copies
- Make INT a stat that matters for Wizards (this will require future tokens to add +INT)

Wizard relic and legendary: oh yuk. I would never use these. The wizard relic would be the only class relic I won't get. I know that may just be me, maybe wizards who like the skill check will enjoy this.

Although, now that I look at the UR, it allows rare scrolls and uses the charm slot...so, I guess I will just keep that (instead of downgrading to the relic).

Aaron Jozwiak wrote: In regards to the Wizard legendary, I don't understand why Wizards are being given improvements without requirements?

1. ST based dmg bump, but only applicable to spells that have that
2. FA Spell Boxes are nice, but not enough when compared to rest of Legendary
3. The utility of adding new spells from scrolls seems nice, but a headache for all GM's.
4. Are the scrolls consumed in coaching?
5. Scrolls don't inherently have the ability for the ST dmg bump. Will that be added as a blanket ability for all Wizard spells?
6. Not explicitly stated one way or the other, but can the scrolls that are added be from any eligible class?

Scrolls are not consumed
Scrolls are Wizard only
Scrolls without slides gain the SC bonus
Wizards generally monitor the numbers for our own spells and scrolls.

The slide spells do currently get hosed but the bump to non slide spells is signifigant