TOPIC: 2021 Transmuted Feedback Part Two

Lequinian wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Justice wrote:

Harlax wrote:

Justice wrote: I don’t understand the direction of the Fighter legendary. I don’t know what even to say...


I’ll be in the corner rocking myself until the next iteration.

Failed your will save, eh?

Yup stunned for one round


I want to be respectful, I don’t understand the design objective for the fighter legendary. Someone help me see the value in this token?

A few things.

1. In final rooms, sometimes you just die in combat. Like, the monster hits you, and you die. Or - the monster makes you make a save, and if you fail, you die.

This gives you 1 cinematic vengeance action in that case.

But mostly ignore this ability.

2. Whirlwind basically adds 25-33% to your entire damage output, in around 1/2 the dungeons.

Around 1/2 dungeons have 2+ monsters in 1 of 3 or 4 rooms. In those rooms you deal double damage*.

It the token said instead:

Flip a coin in coaching - on a heads you deal double damage in one combat room designated by the designers of this module, would you think it was weak?


* Assuming the multiple monsters are in melee range.

If you had the choice between that and automatic quick strike, which would you take?

Definitely whirlwind, but for social reasons. Making the rest of the party stand around while I play True Dungeon and they do not isn't fun for me.

James Bennett wrote: For the Wizard legendary, can spell swap the free actions? I have to admit it feels odd looking to use spell swap damage spells downwards to increase damage.

Good question. I would hope yes, but then you also need Charm of Spell Swapping. Yet another charm needed in the build while we lose the Charm Necklace.

The more I read all of the questions and concerns, the more apparent it becomes how complicated the dynamics are of building a legendary for the caster classes. It totally makes sense that most of them (excluding Druid) were saved for last. But it also seem we should have started this process sooner to allow enough time to evaluate all of this. We've had a few major shifts in focus. We've gone from Free Actions and familiars to Free Actions, MEC and MMM and now to Free Actions and Skill Tests. It seems pretty consistent that people like more spells and free actions. Everything else is getting dragged through the muck.

Harlax wrote:
But mostly ignore this ability. Yep, an ability on a legendary that can be mostly ignored.

Surely you are aware that having a "mostly ignorable abilities" is a hallmark of class legendary design?

Or do you see a lot of polymorphing Druids who use weaker potions, Rangers using scrolls and animal friends, and rolled 1-3 on Initiative for Bards to bounce?

Not everything has to go to the bottom line - sometimes it can be flavor.

Matthew Hayward wrote: Definitely whirlwind, but for social reasons. Making the rest of the party stand around while I play True Dungeon and they do not isn't fun for me.

This is the one thing that makes me think about not using the Charm of Quick Strikes... but everyone seems to like it when I stun in the 0 round.

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Harlax wrote:
But mostly ignore this ability. Yep, an ability on a legendary that can be mostly ignored.

Surely you are aware that having a "mostly ignorable abilities" is a hallmark of class legendary design?

Or do you see a lot of polymorphing Druids who use weaker potions, Rangers using scrolls and animal friends, and rolled 1-3 on Initiative for Bards to bounce?

Not everything has to go to the bottom line - sometimes it can be flavor.

Did you find my Blaze of Glory idea flavorful? Just as vanishingly rare, but more spectacular.

Question:

1. Can a Wizard equip both UR Jinn's Magebook Charm, and also one or the other of Relic Mage Medallion or Slithigarrette's Arch-Mage Medallion?

2. If they do so, do they gain the effect of Jinn's Magebook twice in a stackable way, e.g. 10 slots for scroll tokens?

Question:

Are the Skill Test Bonus amounts on Relic Mage Medallion and Slithigarrette's Arch-Mage Medallion doubled when using Mad Evoker's Charm?

E.g. Level 0 Fire Dart deals 3 + skill test. With the Legendary Wizard this is 3+15 = 18. If MeC is used on this spell is the base damage 36 (which is then modified by the Wizard's Spell damage modifier)?

If Fighter and Cleric go through I am probally going to make the relic for each of them, however the Legendary for both underwhelm me.

Cleric Legendary +1 Restore Power and +1 Restore Spell is nice but isn't a must have, Divine Intervention is still a flawed power for me, I am not going to bother the DM for it in a combat.

Fighter Relic is solid stats and I like the boost to reflex saves, Whirwind attack to attack a second target is kinda meh for me, and I haven't ever actually died as a fighter so one extra attack is like meaningless to me.

Matthew Hayward wrote: Question:

1. Can a Wizard equip both UR Jinn's Magebook Charm, and also one or the other of Relic Mage Medallion or Slithigarrette's Arch-Mage Medallion?

2. If they do so, do they gain the effect of Jinn's Magebook twice in a stackable way, e.g. 10 slots for scroll tokens?

My guess would be if you gain the effect you can't slot the token too.

Ok, settled down a bit, now have thoughts on others:

Cleric relic and legendary: seems a little odd to completely lose the abilities from the UR, and be designed in a way that many clerics will still want to equip it, even alongside the legendary. Not sure that it is bad, just feels odd.

Fighter legendary: fight after death...uh, isn't that barbarian? Also, not a great ability.

kurtreznor wrote: Ok, settled down a bit, now have thoughts on others:

Cleric relic and legendary: seems a little odd to completely lose the abilities from the UR, and be designed in a way that many clerics will still want to equip it, even alongside the legendary. Not sure that it is bad, just feels odd.

Fighter legendary: fight after death...uh, isn't that barbarian? Also, not a great ability.

My suggestion for the Fighters: Blaze Of Glory, 1 melee attack after death, auto hit, auto crit, max damage. It’s virtually never going to happen, but when it does.... Especially if it also triggers whirlwind.

Dave wrote:

James Bennett wrote:

Beertram wrote: Will mages be skipping the memory test now???

I sincerely doubt it. Especially since it MECs.

I just realized this. There are people who already think MEC is broken. Expect to hear from them soon.

OH, I get it now. I hadn't thought about MEC doubling this bonus because I have never been interested in MEC. But that does seem like a fun gamble for MEC wizards: commit to the life sac, then wizard skill test for another 24 damage.
Definitely not for me, but I could see others enjoying this.