TOPIC: 2021 Ultra Rare Feedback Part Two

Raven wrote:

Jeff Martin wrote:

Fiddy wrote: Nightshade's needs some text about the dagger damage icon. Or a link to TokenDB.

Crud. Sorry!

It is just like the +2 Nightshade's Short Sword -- only it can be thrown (using DEX to hit and STR for damage) or used in melee fashion (STR for both). The thrown mode eliminates the need to spend one round maneuver to Sneak Attack, but then you will lose the use of the Dagger for the rest of the combat.

WOW. That is.... Quite the dagger!

(Upfront: I am biased, and I want to see this Dagger become a reality. So please know I’m not arguing against it, or to have it nerfed, just wanting to point out some design elements)

1) This dagger is almost the equivalent of the Shortsword. It’s damage wheel appears to be just *1* point less, with a range which seems to go from 3-8, compared to the Shortsword which goes from 4-8. I’m guessing Nightshade bribed/blackmailed some metallurgists to make this very effective dagger.

(Except for the Obsidian Dagger, I think all daggers have been d4 weapons, haven’t they?)

2) This allows Rogues to make a Sneak Attack without 1 Rd delay! Awesome. Again, an upgrade from the original. Frees up a slot for anyone using a rare Elvenkind token to get that effect.

3) This gives the Ability to Double Sneak Attack damage on a crit? Awesome - that’s expected with the Nightshade name.

4) Allows a Sneak Attack at ranged? Fantastic!! That power is only available on a couple other high end tokens (lenses of agility / Lenses of Vital insight) ... and although those allow a wider range of weapons, who cares? if you’re specifically looking for the chance to double your Sneak Attack damage, you’ll still want to use Nightshade’s! Basically frees up your eye slot, so you can focus (hah!) on other enchancements.

All said, these are a stunningly awesome upgrade. I approve.

I’d still approve, even if they dropped first round Sneak Attack, and/or went to a d4 damage wheel. That’d still give Rogues the design element they wanted (double-able Sneak Damage) and the bonus of a *Ranged Sneak Attack* weapon.

Matthew Hayward wrote: [
Although, actually BEHOLD:

tokendb.com/token/obsidian-dagger/

A d6 dagger usable by all (including Druid and Wizard).

So I guess it's fine to be a d6 dagger.

Nightshade’s +2 Obsidian Throwing Dagger?!?

This absolutely has the ThievesGuild stamp of approval!!!
I may have to go bribe/blackmail some stonemasons instead of the metallurgists!

Just keep in mind that if the Dagger is thrown (to get rid of the 1rd delay), the Rogue can't use it for the rest of the combat. If they wait 1 rd and use it as a stabby Dagger, then they can use it the next round.

Raven wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Harlax wrote:

Raven wrote: Nightshade’s +2 Obsidian Throwing Dagger?!

Obsidian? Not Saphire?

Nightshade's +2 sapphire inlaid assassination dagger!

No, wait: Nightshade’s +2 sapphire inlaid obsidian assassination stiletto!

Seriously, tho...

I agree with folks who say simplest is best.
Just getting the Nightshade Sneak-attack Doubling power reprinted is fantastic. A throwable sneak attack weapon is icing on the cake.
It’s okay to drop the damage wheel to normal dagger levels. It’s okay to leave off the special Dagger symbol (tho I really like the symbol). It’s okay if we don’t include First-Round sneak... the extra text would clutter the token, and there’s plenty of ways to get around the delay (even at the rare level). It’ll still be good enough that Rogues (even ones who already have the Original Nightshade Shortsword) will want to PYP it.

Btw, my own personal favorite for name would be:

Nightshade’s +2 Throwing Knife

simple, & to the point. Plus I like the alliteration.
(And if I was in charge of graphics, I’d give it a sapphire blue hilt, instead of purple.

I made the swirl around the blade more blue.

The Dagger works just like the Short Sword -- only you have the option to SA the first round if you throw it. All other normal rules apply after that. I don't think it is too complicated.

I will put the normal damage on the left side of the dagger and the SA damage on to right (10-SA) to help with the damage on the dagger. Anyone can use it except Clerics. Not sure about FoB for Monks yet...probably.

Jeff Martin wrote:

Milambus (Jake) wrote: Overall its a very nice set of tokens...

but, as a Monk there is basically nothing for me. The only Monk items are reprints or functional reprints that I already own. Sure I'll get a Nugget and probably a Sunstone for the Transmute, but other than that I have nothing to buy.

There are 7 reprints or functional reprints. Could we drop the reprint of Stu's to add something new?

Yeah...you (and lots of others) are probably right. We will move Stu's to next year. I will make up a completely new UR for that spot. Thanks.

If so please consider moving Sweetwood back to neck and letting the fighter relic start on Sweetwood, Stu, or Valhalla.

Jeff Martin wrote:

Raven wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Harlax wrote:

Raven wrote: Nightshade’s +2 Obsidian Throwing Dagger?!

Obsidian? Not Saphire?

Nightshade's +2 sapphire inlaid assassination dagger!

No, wait: Nightshade’s +2 sapphire inlaid obsidian assassination stiletto!

Seriously, tho...

I agree with folks who say simplest is best.
Just getting the Nightshade Sneak-attack Doubling power reprinted is fantastic. A throwable sneak attack weapon is icing on the cake.
It’s okay to drop the damage wheel to normal dagger levels. It’s okay to leave off the special Dagger symbol (tho I really like the symbol). It’s okay if we don’t include First-Round sneak... the extra text would clutter the token, and there’s plenty of ways to get around the delay (even at the rare level). It’ll still be good enough that Rogues (even ones who already have the Original Nightshade Shortsword) will want to PYP it.

Btw, my own personal favorite for name would be:

Nightshade’s +2 Throwing Knife

simple, & to the point. Plus I like the alliteration.
(And if I was in charge of graphics, I’d give it a sapphire blue hilt, instead of purple.

I made the swirl around the blade more blue.

The Dagger works just like the Short Sword -- only you have the option to SA the first round if you throw it. All other normal rules apply after that. I don't think it is too complicated.

I will put the normal damage on the left side of the dagger and the SA damage on to right (10-SA) to help with the damage on the dagger. Anyone can use it except Clerics. Not sure about FoB for Monks yet...probably.

Monks could use some FoB love and it doesn't have a strong effect that Monk's could exploit. I'd say it's golden to be FoB compatible

Lequinian wrote:

Jeff Martin wrote:

Milambus (Jake) wrote: Overall its a very nice set of tokens...

but, as a Monk there is basically nothing for me. The only Monk items are reprints or functional reprints that I already own. Sure I'll get a Nugget and probably a Sunstone for the Transmute, but other than that I have nothing to buy.

There are 7 reprints or functional reprints. Could we drop the reprint of Stu's to add something new?

Yeah...you (and lots of others) are probably right. We will move Stu's to next year. I will make up a completely new UR for that spot. Thanks.

If so please consider moving Sweetwood back to neck and letting the fighter relic start on Sweetwood, Stu, or Valhalla.

Chances are it will move back to neck and be the start of the fighter relic.

Don't expect Stu or Valhalla to be options. May happen but that's generally only if a new UR is a functional replacement for an existing which this is not.

Jeff Martin wrote: I made the swirl around the blade more blue.

I’d noticed that. Thanks!

The Dagger works just like the Short Sword -- only you have the option to SA the first round if you throw it. All other normal rules apply after that. I don't think it is too complicated.

Are you saying it grants Sneak Attack without 1 round delay only when used as a Ranged S.A. Weapon? Because that’sngoing to cause some confusion if there’s no text to that effect on the token.

The original NS Shortsword does not remove the “one round set-up” requirement. It requires at least a Rare token to get that First Round Sneak Attack.

And while, yeah, you can use that first round to do a melee attack instead of S.A., with the Shortsword, you’d still need to do a round delay before your Sneak, where this blade bypasses that, AND adds a power preciously only found on UR tokens.

If that is your intent, I am totally cool with that!!

There will be confusion, tho, if there’s no text on token about negating the first round delay.

I will put the normal damage on the left side of the dagger and the SA damage on to right (10-SA) to help with the damage ...

Thanks!! That will help a lot, as other “special effect symbol” tokens have text to clarify their effects.

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Lequinian wrote:

Jeff Martin wrote:

Milambus (Jake) wrote: Overall its a very nice set of tokens...

but, as a Monk there is basically nothing for me. The only Monk items are reprints or functional reprints that I already own. Sure I'll get a Nugget and probably a Sunstone for the Transmute, but other than that I have nothing to buy.

There are 7 reprints or functional reprints. Could we drop the reprint of Stu's to add something new?

Yeah...you (and lots of others) are probably right. We will move Stu's to next year. I will make up a completely new UR for that spot. Thanks.

If so please consider moving Sweetwood back to neck and letting the fighter relic start on Sweetwood, Stu, or Valhalla.

Chances are it will move back to neck and be the start of the fighter relic.

Don't expect Stu or Valhalla to be options. May happen but that's generally only if a new UR is a functional replacement for an existing which this is not.

I expect Sweetwood to move back to neck. That’s where it belongs
Jeff has said Stu will move to a future year. I’m sad about that, but I understand
I don’t expect Stu or Valhalla to be an ingredient for the relic, as much as I’d like that.
I do hope that Stu might be an alternative option for one of the two UR items in the Legendary recipe.

Jeff Martin wrote:

Raven wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Harlax wrote:

Raven wrote: Nightshade’s +2 Obsidian Throwing Dagger?!

Obsidian? Not Saphire?

Nightshade's +2 sapphire inlaid assassination dagger!

No, wait: Nightshade’s +2 sapphire inlaid obsidian assassination stiletto!

Seriously, tho...

I agree with folks who say simplest is best.
Just getting the Nightshade Sneak-attack Doubling power reprinted is fantastic. A throwable sneak attack weapon is icing on the cake.
It’s okay to drop the damage wheel to normal dagger levels. It’s okay to leave off the special Dagger symbol (tho I really like the symbol). It’s okay if we don’t include First-Round sneak... the extra text would clutter the token, and there’s plenty of ways to get around the delay (even at the rare level). It’ll still be good enough that Rogues (even ones who already have the Original Nightshade Shortsword) will want to PYP it.

Btw, my own personal favorite for name would be:

Nightshade’s +2 Throwing Knife

simple, & to the point. Plus I like the alliteration.
(And if I was in charge of graphics, I’d give it a sapphire blue hilt, instead of purple.

I made the swirl around the blade more blue.

The Dagger works just like the Short Sword -- only you have the option to SA the first round if you throw it. All other normal rules apply after that. I don't think it is too complicated.

I will put the normal damage on the left side of the dagger and the SA damage on to right (10-SA) to help with the damage on the dagger. Anyone can use it except Clerics. Not sure about FoB for Monks yet...probably.

Could you just equip two daggers ?

Jeff Martin wrote:

Raven wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Harlax wrote:

Raven wrote: Nightshade’s +2 Obsidian Throwing Dagger?!

Obsidian? Not Saphire?

Nightshade's +2 sapphire inlaid assassination dagger!

No, wait: Nightshade’s +2 sapphire inlaid obsidian assassination stiletto!

Seriously, tho...

I agree with folks who say simplest is best.
Just getting the Nightshade Sneak-attack Doubling power reprinted is fantastic. A throwable sneak attack weapon is icing on the cake.
It’s okay to drop the damage wheel to normal dagger levels. It’s okay to leave off the special Dagger symbol (tho I really like the symbol). It’s okay if we don’t include First-Round sneak... the extra text would clutter the token, and there’s plenty of ways to get around the delay (even at the rare level). It’ll still be good enough that Rogues (even ones who already have the Original Nightshade Shortsword) will want to PYP it.

Btw, my own personal favorite for name would be:

Nightshade’s +2 Throwing Knife

simple, & to the point. Plus I like the alliteration.
(And if I was in charge of graphics, I’d give it a sapphire blue hilt, instead of purple.

I made the swirl around the blade more blue.

The Dagger works just like the Short Sword -- only you have the option to SA the first round if you throw it. All other normal rules apply after that. I don't think it is too complicated.

I will put the normal damage on the left side of the dagger and the SA damage on to right (10-SA) to help with the damage on the dagger. Anyone can use it except Clerics. Not sure about FoB for Monks yet...probably.

@Jeff, is it your intent that Cranston’s boosts slid spell damage? Is it intended to boost non-slid spell damage? The language right now is confusing because of Blessed Tempest Gloves and Draco-Lich Claw Charm.

Anthony Barnstable wrote:

Jeff Martin wrote:

Raven wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Harlax wrote:

Raven wrote: Nightshade’s +2 Obsidian Throwing Dagger?!

Obsidian? Not Saphire?

Nightshade's +2 sapphire inlaid assassination dagger!

No, wait: Nightshade’s +2 sapphire inlaid obsidian assassination stiletto!

Seriously, tho...

I agree with folks who say simplest is best.
Just getting the Nightshade Sneak-attack Doubling power reprinted is fantastic. A throwable sneak attack weapon is icing on the cake.
It’s okay to drop the damage wheel to normal dagger levels. It’s okay to leave off the special Dagger symbol (tho I really like the symbol). It’s okay if we don’t include First-Round sneak... the extra text would clutter the token, and there’s plenty of ways to get around the delay (even at the rare level). It’ll still be good enough that Rogues (even ones who already have the Original Nightshade Shortsword) will want to PYP it.

Btw, my own personal favorite for name would be:

Nightshade’s +2 Throwing Knife

simple, & to the point. Plus I like the alliteration.
(And if I was in charge of graphics, I’d give it a sapphire blue hilt, instead of purple.

I made the swirl around the blade more blue.

The Dagger works just like the Short Sword -- only you have the option to SA the first round if you throw it. All other normal rules apply after that. I don't think it is too complicated.

I will put the normal damage on the left side of the dagger and the SA damage on to right (10-SA) to help with the damage on the dagger. Anyone can use it except Clerics. Not sure about FoB for Monks yet...probably.

@Jeff, is it your intent that Cranston’s boosts slid spell damage? Is it intended to boost non-slid spell damage? The language right now is confusing because of Blessed Tempest Gloves and Draco-Lich Claw Charm.

A re-statement what Spell, Ranged, Missile and Melee attacks mean will be posted in the next day or so. However, basically if it is a spell and it must be slid -- it is a Ranged attack. If it is a spell and it does NOT have a slide mechanic it is a Spell attack.

Thanks for your patience.